Two guys from my high school. One year apart.
Hipster…and Lawyer.
Hipster plays in jazz band with Lawyer. They have the same academic advisor, and fall into a casual friendship.
Hipster has trouble in school. He plays drums and guitar, but struggles to maintain the grades. It’s nothing to do with behavior – everyone likes him. The academic advisor does his best, but after failing a few courses, Hipster’s expelled. He ends up bouncing from school to school, and manages to graduate, then heads to a halfway-decent state university known for partying. He spends most of his year there jamming with his buddies and soon drops out. They start a rock band, smoke dope, wear tie-dye, collect Grateful Dead tapes and call each other “dude.”
Lawyer thinks it’s a shame Hipster got kicked out of school. His own grades are A’s. He wins academic prizes, a scholarship to study in England, and advanced placement at Harvard, where he graduates magna cum laude. He heads to a first-tier law school, and places near the top of his class. An offer arrives from a white shoe firm.
Stop the tape.
We know what happens next:
Hipster grows a beer belly, loses the tie-dye and winds up working in a call center. He moves into his old bedroom at home and turns morose. His parents mumble excuses about dyslexia.
Lawyer makes partner and earns a million six. He purchases a loft in SoHo, a little country place upstate and a vintage Porsche. His parents seek opportunities to smugly mention his doings to their friends, who hate them for it.
Here’s what actually happens:
Trey Anastasio’s jam-band, Phish, becomes an international success. He plays sports stadiums and records with Herbie Hancock. He’s worth millions. His parents are pleased.
Lawyer – that’s me! – sinks into abject misery at Sullivan & Cromwell, and gets the shove after his second year. I do a lot of therapy, change careers a couple times, and become The People’s Therapist. I don’t make much money. My parents are relieved I’m not a depressed lawyer anymore.
My point: Being a pothead jam-band guitarist might be a better way to get rich than becoming a lawyer. Especially if that’s who you really are, and being a lawyer isn’t.
It’s a rare thing to get rich. It has to be. Rich means you have more money than everyone else.
If you want to get rich, you have a choice. You can do what you love and hope lightning strikes. That worked for Trey. Or you can sell out and go where the money is.
If you’re banking on the second option, know this: Being a lawyer is a lousy way to get rich. Law puts you in massive debt, and lawyers are poorly-paid compared to finance types and accountants. Also, thanks to the almighty billable hour, you end up working around the clock.
Many lawyers wind up gazing across the divide from lawyer to hipster with a twinge of regret. Their “burn-out” friends might flounder and muddle along from job to job, but eventually, as a hipster, you’ll probably find yourself, get your act together and emerge from the experience – without debt. You also get to wear tie-dye, sleep late, smoke awesome weed, and call people “dude.” You might even find your soul.
Lawyers burn out a lot. That’s when you realize you need some time to flounder and muddle too – but by then you owe $200k to a bank, so even if you hate law, you have to stick around to pay off your ransom. That kills more years, in addition to the three already consumed by law school.
You lose the critical years Hipster spent finding his groove. Essentially, you sacrifice your twenties – an essential decade for floundering and self-discovery.
Everything isn’t rosy for Hipster – all that floundering and muddling can take its toll and it doesn’t always wind up like a fairy tale. But Hipster accomplishes necessary work towards personal growth. He’s allowing the play side of his life to express itself in his choice of work – and every once in a while, Hipsters turn into rockstars. That’s because, when you do something you love, which speaks to who you are and expresses your passions, you tend to get good at it.
As a therapist, it isn’t my job to change anyone – or to tell you what to do. My job is to create awareness of your own your thoughts and feelings, so you can get yourself where you want to be.
But consider becoming a hipster.
========
This piece is part of a series of columns presented by The People’s Therapist in cooperation with AboveTheLaw.com. My thanks to ATL for their help with the creation of this series.
If you enjoy these columns, please check out The People’s Therapist’s new book, Way Worse Than Being A Dentist: The Lawyer’s Quest for Meaning
I also heartily recommend my first book, an introduction to the concepts behind psychotherapy, Life is a Brief Opportunity for Joy
(Both books are also available on bn.com and the Apple iBookstore.)
Great post.
Will, I keep coming back knowing that one of these days you’re going to give us the story of your departure from S&C – you know, the nuclear armageddon, as you described it. Don’t disappoint me.
Awesome post. I actually saw Phish on their last tour (my first time seeing them) with a group of lawyers – one of the best experiences of my life. I wasn’t a huge fan but was really blown away by their live musicianship, and the great music and joyous crowd was the kind of mass ecstatic event that you don’t experience often in this non-mythic life. My first experience with shamanism, something like that.
I had a law school classmate drop out in the FIRST MONTH to go back to his plan of being a golf pro. I wonder how that worked for him. I wouldn’t want to be a golf pro, but I’m curious if he looks back with pleasure or regret (or does he bother to look back at all?).
TPT says:
“Lawyer – that’s me! – sinks into abject misery at Sullivan & Cromwell, and gets the shove after his second year.”
Wow. You really didn’t last long in that job. I figured you had been there for at least 4 or 5. (That’s my own personal experience being projected onto others).
It there is something that would be more painful than being a lawyer, it would be being a hipster. Or a rock star.
No doubt, far too many young people gravitate to the profession of last resort as what their parents told them to be the surest path to wealth and prestige, only to learn a bit too late that they have neither the desire nor temperament to practice law.
But this cute anecdote conflates the problem by offering your hipster, whose band happens to end up an international success, as the alternative. Why not write about the “other guy” winning the lottery?
It’s a wonderful notion to play out childhood fantasies to see if dreams really can come true. There is also the story, unfortunately, of the high school rock band hipster living on the streets, eating from other people’s garbage cans. Will you be telling that story as well?
It’s true that the vast majority of slackers won’t grow up to be millionaire rock stars.
But from personal experience, I can tell you this: Of all of my friends from law school (say 30-40 people), I can list the ones really happy with their lives on one hand. And that includes people who aren’t exactly happy with their jobs, but still know that it’s the right path for them.
A small portion (maybe 10, including me) have left the law, or at least legal practice. Some of us work in “law-adjacent” jobs (law firm business development, legal industry consulting, etc.). Some went back to school (again!), but these folks have finances most of us don’t. A couple made a real transition outside of the law, to journalism and teaching, respectively.
The rest of that group? Largely hate their jobs. Whenever I see them, they talk about all the things they’d rather be doing. Some of them want to do something fanciful, like play music or write novels for a living. Some are more practical — they want to become carpenters or mechanics, something that would give them pride they don’t get from practicing law.
None of the people I graduated with is poor. Everyone has a roof over their heads and enough extra cash to go to the movies and take the odd vacation, at least. The Big Law attorneys have more, but also less time in which to spend it. Overall, it’s not a group of failures, but there is a serious undercurrent of dissatisfaction, of being locked into lives they don’t enjoy, of having missed out on a true calling.
Meanwhile, the script is flipped for the musicians, artists and performers I know. Far less economic stability, but they “worry” less about money and it’s less likely to be a topic of conversation. A handful of them feel that it was a mistake to pursue an artistic career, and envy me my office job. But most? Most recognize they’ll never be rich, but still wouldn’t give up what they do. They might look for ways to earn more money or become more stable (teach their craft, move to less expensive cities or towns, take jobs as graphic designers or copywriters to make ends meet while they pursue art on the side).
Will’s example is extreme, but the underlying lesson is not. Too many people pursue law for the wrong reasons — vague ambition, money, prestige. We have something to learn from the slacker musicians out there, who are genuinely just trying to enjoy life.
Think of how many unhappy lawyers can’t even remember the last time they did anything for pleasure our out of genuine interest….
There’s a certain mindset where you’re not satisfied with what you’ve got. Call it motivation, or dissatisfaction – it’s a driving need to explore how things could be better, what you could be doing instead that would improve your life. If you express these thoughts out loud, it can sound like you’re unhappy with what you’ve got – and lawyers are used to doing this, saying that the results they’re getting just aren’t good enough, there’s a better deal for their client if they could only find the precedent.
I’m not saying they aren’t unhappy – plenty of people are. But the expression of unhappiness comes easily to some people. And to some extent it’s just a tool in their repertoire. It works well for my father – customer service reps quickly pass him off to the person who can actually solve his problem, and when he hangs up, that attitude disappears, no longer necessary.
If, like Will, it’s not just talk, then they’re the one in a position to do something about it. To find that job that really is more satisfying, and go with it.
I think “hippy,” not “hipster,” is the technical term. But love the piece and your blog.
Agreed. The only worse advice than “become a hipster” I can think of is “become a juggalo.”
How about “become a lawyer”…
Worst things to become:
1. Juggalo
2. Hipster
3. Lawyer
But it’s a distant third, unless you’re talking about a Hipster Lawyer, which might exist, or Juggalo Lawyer, which only haunts me in my worst nightmares.
juggalo lawyer?!?
holy hey-zeus.
i want that bobble head doll.
Do you mean juggalo as in an extreme Insane Clown Posse fan? But if you mean be a high class male prostitute…. I don’t know… sounds pretty awesome to me.
I agree with this
You know, I’m pretty sure you’re still depressed.
Doesn’t it worry you how anti-law you still are, even though you’re not a lawyer anymore? How much you still let this define your life?
There’s a reason the first story is the one people assume: because yours is probably the only counter-example in history. Just because you couldn’t hack it as a lawyer doesn’t mean there aren’t plenty of us who love it.
You must be high. Do you seriously still believe everyone makes millions, even in biglaw, which is a tiny fraction of the legal market.
Since I made no such claim, I’d say that no, I don’t believe that.
But the hipster in a jazz band is almost certain to make less than the lawyer–whether one makes millions or not.
Even if Will is still angry and anti-law, if he’s happy with his current life and career, he isn’t missing anything. We only go around once and time forcing yourself to feel something you don’t is a waste of time (regardless of how many others might genuinely like it).
But then why does he constantly feel the need to lash out at his former profession? If you’re over it, let it go.
that’s not the point, and its too bad you didn’t get it because its a pretty profound one. he is not saying the law is bad/for no one to do, what he IS saying is there are certain types of ppl for whom law is a good profession. technical, robotic types (who enjoy and are good at helping rich white men shuffle their papers to be able to maximize their profits), in my opinion. i would hazard a guess that you fit this description.
but many other types of people have passions in other areas and talents which are wasted in legal research, analysis and argument. creative, artsy types, for example. and many of these types waste years chasing a dream that is a Big Law marketing pitch, because I too know many quality *quality* people, who would probably agree with most of what Will thinks about the practising life.
Law Student says:
“he is not saying the law is bad/for no one to do, what he IS saying is there are certain types of ppl for whom law is a good profession. technical, robotic types (who enjoy and are good at helping rich white men shuffle their papers to be able to maximize their profits), in my opinion.”
BigLaw isn’t about helping “rich white men…maximize their profits”!
It’s about serving large corporations! Large corporations are people, too! They can sue and be sued. They can participate in the political process. They employ massive numbers of people who would be jobless without them! They even consume massive amounts of energy that would otherwise go to waste.
Just think of where we would be if there were no large corporations. Would you be able to get a Big Mac anywhere in the world? Have Enterprise-Rent-A-Car come pick you up? Learn about Geico insurance from a cartoon character?
It is the BigLaw attorney who helps make corporate dreams come true. Without BigLaw, corporations would not be able to defend themselves against frivolous actions. They would literally die a death of a thousand cuts and their own employees literally tore the financial flesh from thier corporate org charts. And stole all their staplers.
But then again, Adoy, there are legions of lawyers who hate it and who are only functional because they are taking lots of psych drugs, or lots of alcohol and illegal drugs. I talk to them a lot.
Will isn’t alone, and there are plenty of people who do really well after floundering around a bit and going against the conventional wisdom. Like, say, Bill Gates. Or Steve Jobs.
I’m glad that you have found a career you love, and that fits your personality and aptitudes. Not everyone with a law degree is so fortunate. Those are the folks Will is trying to help out, seems like to me.
I’m sorry, but I just can’t stand it: a flounder is a fish. I believe you wanted the verb “to founder”, meaning to become wrecked, to fail utterly.
floun·der1
[floun-der] Show IPA
–verb (used without object)
1.
to struggle with stumbling or plunging movements (usually followed by about, along, on, through, etc.): He saw the child floundering about in the water.
2.
to struggle clumsily or helplessly: He floundered helplessly on the first day of his new job.
Boom!
B L Waite = overeductated annoying white person who gets scared when homeless zombies ask for change and freaks out/freezes up when his/her car experiences a flat tire.
My apologies. The English language continues to deteriorate beyond my wildest dreams, and I had no idea this had become acceptable usage.
founder 2 |ˈfaʊndər| |ˈfaʊndə|
verb [ intrans. ]
(of a ship) fill with water and sink : six drowned when the yacht foundered off the Florida coast.
• figurative (of a plan or undertaking) fail or break down, typically as a result of a particular problem or setback : the talks foundered on the issue of reform.
• (of a hoofed animal, esp. a horse or pony) succumb to laminitis.
no, it is not deteriorating, it is just a matter of certain words being more appropriate in certain contexts. in your case the word is best used in the nautical or metaphorical context.
in other words, figurative means:
figurative |ˈfigyərətiv|
adjective
1 departing from a literal use of words; metaphorical : gold, in the figurative language of the people, was “the tears wept by the sun.”
2 (of an artist or work of art) representing forms that are recognizably derived from life.
so, to be clear, Will is using the word in its proper context, it is you who is deviating from the norm.
You flounder when your ship founders.
lol, you’re such a tool. There is nothing worse than the combination of overeducated and over-arrogant. not to mention under-intelligent, flounder is a common verb bud.
“The English language continues to deteriorate beyond my wildest dreams, and I had no idea this had become acceptable usage.”
yeah just the other day in 1592 (Merriam-Webster)
please carry on with your selfing…
you’re projecting that which is comprehensible. everything else is a total non sequitur. (PS what’s a “verb bud”, if its not an abysmal failure to punctuate from a self-professed English expert?)
Really? Sometimes I think you’re on the right track, but this is absurd. “Being a lawyer can be taxing, so drop out and smoke lots of weed instead”? That’s terrible advice. I think of students who say, “Bill Gates and Mark Zuckerberg dropped out of college! I’ll drop out and become a billionaire too!” Yeah, how’d that work out for you?
I know lots of hipsters. And they’re not all living in nirvana as millionaires, or even living in nirvana as not-millionaires. In fact lots of them bum around, never get their shit together, and spend most of their 20s fucking around… and their 30s… and then you’re a washed up 45 year old pothead. Really?
I’m not saying law is the path to self-fulfillment — lots of people hate it — but the opposite (drop out, get high, become Trey Anastasio) is equally unhelpful.
I don’t think that was the advice. Think a little harder.
Um, ok. For every Phish, there are 10000000000 guys playing on the street with an open guitar case. Haven’t you heard, the bums lost!
i was awaiting the inevitable Dude reference…thank you sir, thank you for coming through!
Wow Will. You are instantly much cooler in my eyes! That said, Trey and the other members of Phish are enormously talented, and were also in the right place at the right time. Lightning most truly did strike. For every Trey, there are thousands of dudes just hanging out waiting for something to happen. But your point is a good one — if you set out doing something just for the money, chances are you will be disappointed. I am sure Trey and his bandmates did not set out to be rich; they were just doing something they love to do. Those of us who are lawyers can try to do that on a smaller scale, either by finding work that fulfills us or by making enough time outside of the office to do the things we love to do.
Good post. Oh, and if you talk to your friend Trey — please tell him that I’m paying $60 to see Phish at Great Woods this summer, and would love to hear an Antelope!
There are thousands of lawyer dudes just hanging out waiting for something to happen, too. But if I run into Trey again, I’ll be sure to pass along the love.
there is a distinct difference between a hippie (burlington, vt circa 1984) and a hipster (williamsburg, brooklyn circa 2009). trey has never fallen into the latter category.
This might be another example of my age showing…
if i may respectfully use your dictionary against you (bc i loved the article):
hipster 1 |ˈhipstər|
noun informal
a person who follows the latest trends and fashions.
i too see hipsters as the poseurs Will seems to be admonishing against.
law student is obviously not familiar with phish shows or the trends and fashions of the 80s and 90s. semantics aside, it would be more proper to characterize trey’s followers as a marginal group of dirty hippies, tweakers, trustifarians, etc. and present-day hipsters as being particularly defined by the styles you see in such enclaves as williamsburg. if either of you are ever in brooklyn, go stand on the corner of bedford ave and north 7th st–then you’ll know what i mean. or just take a look at this site http://www.latfh.com/
I am a first-time reader. My roommate sent me this piece. I’m really glad he did because this has some great thoughts. Thanks, TPT.
I am a second year law student and also a Phish head. I “went straight through” as we say here in the law school community meaning I graduated college and went straight to law school without taking time to think about my decision.
I saw my first Phish show in August of ’09 at Toyota Park in Chicago three weeks before I was set to start law school at the University of Wisconsin-Madison. It was part of their first tour since they broke up in 2004. I was too young in 2004 for my parents to let me see Phish, and I felt I had missed out on one of the greatest live music experiences America has ever seen.
The summer of 2009 was filled with anxiety, doubt, and the peculiar excitement that accompanies a 22 year old as he confronts the rest of his life. I walked into Toyota Park just as Trey was starting the show with the opening notes of a song about his own personal struggles with addiction and poor choices: Kill Devil Falls.
I fell in love with Phish and the community of people who follow them around the country. I save my money and see them every chance I get all around the country. But, I think I’ve learned some valuable lessons from Phish kids about reconciling my official “lawyerly” life with my passion for hitting the road on Phish tour. The lesson is: You can add authenticity and originality to the world in any corner of life you find yourself in.
I’ve made great friends with the whole spectrum of American occupations on Phish tour. I know guys who are marketing gurus for clothing companies, I know a kid who manages trust funds, I know teachers, nurses, and social workers. I know an old Phish kid who runs a vineyard in Seattle.
I also know several lawyers who have found the magic combination of life and occupation. One in particular, worked litigation very successfully and retired in his 30s to teach yoga and catch as many Phish shows as possible. He’s one of the kindest, hopeful people I’ve ever met.
I guess all I’m saying is: There’s a way to hold on to your passions while maintaining a decent professional life. Phish kids across the country are doing it.
So, thanks The People’s Therapist for your thoughts. Thanks to Trey and Phish for all you do. And thanks to the thousands of Phish kids out there working through the chalkdust torture. I see you in your suits and your ties. And your jeans and tie-dye.
We can still live while we’re young!
I meant to add, too, that I didn’t mean to subvert your message, Will.
I definitely wish I had let the hippie side of me control my law school decision.
I don’t think law school is for me. But, 200$K deep right now, and I see little way out. At least, for a while.
So keep up the good work. Getting people to think before they make HUGE decisions like going to law school is wonderful!
I really enjoy your blog, but I don’t think you know what a hipster is. Hipsters are not like hippies – they’re like ironic mods from socioeconomically elite backgrounds.
Guilty as charged…but “hippie” seems like a lame term for Trey, and if I’d called him “Phish leader” it would have blown the reveal. Sorry.
Completely agree. Great article, by the way.
I’m a failed jamband guitarist-turned-lawyer, so I appreciate the sentiment here. But I don’t think its been all roses for Trey either… You left out the drug addiction / gotta jiboo / arrested for heroin posession period. That said, seems like he’s doing pretty good these days. Hoping to see the boys at Watkins Glen this summer…
I’m happy being a lawyer, even though I would trade it for rock stardom in a second. Problem is that I suck at guitar But I think a big reason I’m comfortable with my currrent position is that I spent my time before/during/and after college mostly chilling out–being a beach bum, ski bum, driving cross country to see Phish shows, etc. By the time I got to law school, I was pretty comfortable in my skin and, more than that, I really wanted to work hard at something and see where it would get me.
Yeah, you stole my comment, EC2. Love phish, and I’ve never met Trey personally, (I’ve met Mike 3 different times, though) but I wonder what he would say about your characterization of him as being the one who is happy and fulfilled in his career path. Guy certainly has his demons, and sometimes I get the feeling that he wishes he wasn’t in the spotlight so much.
I’ve got a lot of love for you, too, Will. As someone who is trying to make a career change away from law, and is in therapy trying to deal with that . . . the things you write here have meant a lot to me.
you just sound jealous of the redheaded demon guitar player
I don’t think the point of this piece was that you should smoke a lot of pot and bum around trying to play guitar. Phish succeeded because they have an uncommon level of talent in their genre, and I don’t think Will was positing that this is a path everyone can or should take. Certainly most people who take that path really do burn out and never accomplish anything worthwhile, and I don’t think the author would disagree.
The point I got from this is that the “safe path” is not for everyone, and that it’s important to do some soul searching to see if that path is really so safe for you personally. Most people would say “oh wow, yeah Harvard Law and then S&C sounds great, that’s a much clearer path to success.” You have to remember, however, that it’s only a path to success for the right type of person. It’s great for someone who doesn’t mind long hours, a very strict hierarchy, and somewhat repetitive, low level work for the first stage of his career. However, it might not be so great for someone who gets bored more easily, has a lot of potential career interests outside the law, and enjoys a more entrepreneurial work environment.
The point here is to really think about whether you are the first type of person or the second type. A lot of people I know in law school are going to big, prestigious firms and clearly aren’t going to last because they just aren’t cut out for it. For them, the choice isn’t whether or not to go to a firm or go smoke pot and play guitar. It’s between going to a firm or going and doing public interest and using our school’s LRAP, or doing something completely different in business or whatever. A lot of people go to the firm when it really is likely to make them unhappy.
The basic point comes down to the fact that the “safe path” might actually be a very dangerous path for you depending on your personal characteristics. If you feel apprehensive about the firms and have an option that might be somewhat more risky but you also feel that you would really love it and possibly have a more successful career in the long run, you should think seriously about doing it.
Did I get that right, People’s Therapist?
… so you went to high school with trey anastasio?
Why do you keep calling Trey a hipster? He’s the opposite of a Hipster…
Will, this is a retarded post. I am a lawyer making a comfy salary. I am also a musician — played in garage bands since the age of 13, have several albums recorded and have played too many live shows to count. Here’s the thing I realized a LONG time before Will did: to make it as big as Trey Anastasio, you have to be both really talented (which most are not) AND really lucky (which most are not). Sure, there are plenty of pop stars with little musical talent, but they are talented at publicity, so that’s something else.
I saw Phish play the Williams College student center in November 1988. The crowd was about 30 people. They did that for years and years before they got their break. And all that time they were dirt poor. Happy? Yeah, maybe, at 20 you can be happy doing that. But at 40?
Most bands/musicians never get that break — so for their whole lifetime they play student centers, weddings, bar mitzvahs, hotel lounges, etc., making no money, no health plans, no 401(k), etc. They work whenever called — sure you can “control” your schedule, but then you don’t eat.
Will, that’s the reality of the music business. I chose law over music a long time ago, not because law makes me happier — it doesn’t, by a long stretch — but because I could afford to have my own place (ie not live with my parents at 40), get married, have kids, travel, etc. And I can still play music on the side to keep my mind humming.
You’re counseling people to chase their dreams of happiness. That’s nice. Happiness doesn’t pay the rent.
My advice is: unless you are super-talented and prepared to take the chance that you will most likely NEVER make it, don’t rely on being a professional rock/pop performer.
(Jazz / classical is somewhat different, because you’ll be more likely to know if you’re that talented and can make a living at it.)
to top it off trey is even better at couples therapy…
theres no problem between me and my girlfriend a solid phish can’t get us past!
We continue to over dramatize the “I’m a lawyer but I don’t like my job/life” point. I’m a lawyer. My father was an electrician. He didn’t get a chance to “love his job”— he was happy to have a job and be able to pay the mortgage etc. What makes us think that we are “entitled” to have a “career’ that we “love”? The reason people pay lawyers a lot of money to do what they do is that they don’t want to or can’t do it themselves. This isn’t the reason people pay to hear, e.g., Angela Hewitt play Beethoven sonatas (beauty/creativity). This is much closer to why people pay electricians. If my dad had come to his family and said “I’m not personally fulfilled being an electrician,” the family would have said “sorry to hear that but what ever made you think you would be” and “why don’t you take $20 out of the jar and go buy yourself some beers.”
[…] “Being a pothead jam-band guitarist might be a better way to get rich than becoming a lawyer. Especially if that’s who you really are, and being a lawyer isn’t. It’s a rare thing to get rich. It has to be. Rich means you have more money than everyone else. If you want to get rich, you have a choice. You can do what you love and hope lightning strikes. That worked for Trey. Or you can sell out and go where the money is. If you’re banking on the second option, know this: Being a lawyer is a lousy way to get rich. Law puts you in massive debt, and lawyers are poorly-paid compared to finance types and accountants.” The People’s Therapist, “The Hipster and the Lawyer”. […]
“You lose the critical years Hipster spent finding his groove. Essentially, you sacrifice your twenties – an essential decade for floundering and self-discovery.”
That point resonates with me the most. I spent my twenties as a slave to the law, working my butt off to get out of debt and knowing there was no future for me in the profession. When I turned 30, I quit the law, but I wasn’t really any better off financially than I would have been had I done something completely different after college. I consider my twenties a time when I floundered, but without the benefit of self-discovery I would have had if I never went to law school.
“Self-Discovery” isn’t on the list of activities that people generally recommend. Especially since life is kind of presented as a pre-set cookie cutter path when you are in high school-college.
Education —–> Automatic Career Success!
At least parents seem to look at it this way. If you step off the path, you automatically lose!
I know that my father was actually annoyed that I was going to law school rather than getting right to work on my career.
Of course, he was using his own career path as a template, where you first work and then go back and get your doctorate.
I calculated the break even point between law and engineering to be about 12 years. So, my break even target was age 36 when I chose law school over engineering. I was wrong, but that’s another story.
My friend sent me this blog post, and this was my response to her. Maybe it will provide some perspective for others too.
Thanks!
Should you quite your day job right now? I’m not so sure. But he definitely made some valid points that I VERY much agree with. I’d start by recognizing your reasons for becoming a lawyer in the first place, what were you hoping to gain in this career path, what really happened, etc. Then I would look at your DREAM scenario, if things like fear, doubt and negative self talk, didn’t exist. Then… I would start to draw comparisons and strategies on where to start and what will give you the MOST relief right now. If work-life balance (key word balance) is a manageable place to start, then I would start there. Then, set small attainable goals that will get you one step closer to where you want to be.
Staying at your job, or even being unhappy, are choices that we make. Some people think that they don’t have a “choice”, but staying, standing still and even doing nothing, are ALL choices. Sometimes just recognizing that we have a choice and that we are the ones in the drivers seat provides some immediate relief.
I think one of the key differences is that in the legal field, few people still feel inspired. In the hipster world, everything is inspiring (the weed sometimes helps this). When we are inspired, it is easier to find our inner voice, our inner calling. Thanks for bringing this story to light. I attended a talk last night with a monk who was talking about the ills of social conformity. I’m sure Trey had a lot of people thinking he should just conform, but instead, he followed his heart. I do believe it is possible to follow your heart in the law (at least I hope it is because it is what I have been doing for the last 6 years), but only if that is where your heart truly is. Thanks, Will!
Funny how you forgot to mention the part where Trey gets addicted to heroin and almost loses everything.
Not that many lawyers don’t also develop substance abuse habits, but if we’re gonna rail against the belly of one beast, it makes little sense to gloss over that of the other.
“Also, thanks to the almighty billable hour, you end up working around the clock.”
–> So do people who make the big bucks in finance. They really do. And there’s more risk for them. I know lawyers got laid off, but so did enormous numbers of investment bankers.
Also, people can engage in self discovery and be in law school at the same time. Law school really isn’t all that time consuming. It’s up to the individual to take the time necessary to figure out who they are WHILE they do other things.
I thought that I-banking was like a higher paid version of BigLaw where you were also a cog during your earlier years.
Had I realized that I-banking (or any finance-type industry) existed when I went to law school, I would have probably targeted something like that instead of law. Being that I thought career selection was primarly an economic analysis.
And then I would have gotten laid off during the dot-com bust.
However, the FIRE economy may be on its last legs. We’ll have to see what Bernake does.
Will,
1. Are accountants really better paid than lawyers?
2. What is so bad about being a lawyer? Before you answer that is purely an individual-specific judgment, the gist of your posts is that there are some objective problems with it as well. I would also be interested in hearing your personal reasons for seeing it in a poor light.
I think accountants have less of the trimodal distribution that you find in law.
For example, a young lawyer starting out will fall into one of three pay categories:
1) $160,000 BigLaw job (10%)
2) $40,000 General Law/Government Job (40%)
3) Starbucks Barista (50%)
I think accountants generally avoid #3, but start closer to #2 and live closer to #2 for a longer period of time.
I could be wrong.
Yes, but accountants have to be accountants. I think I’d rather be in charge of enemas at the zoo, but that’s just me.
i would rather be a heroin junkie than figure out how to answer one more interrogatory….
Where the hell is the like button for comments??? Thanks droopie you made me laugh. In sympathy.
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I think Will makes some great points, but I want to add my two cents. Like a previous commenter, I spent time trying to live my rockstar dream during and after college. I gave it a go and had a fun time, but as I approached my late twenties, I realized that I wasn’t Peter Pan and couldn’t live this rockstar fantasy forever. Sure, I could be pretty content as a single dude, rocking out, eating pizza every meal, waiting tables on the side… but I also had other ambitions, such as having a family and being able to provide a comfortable life for that family. Absent those other life goals, maybe I would have stuck with the rock path. However, I was perfectly comforable with my decision to give up my rock life for big law. I gave it my rock dreams a shot and recognized the near impossible odds of succeeding on that path. Do I love my law job? Definitely not. I don’t hate it though. I would guess that fewer than 10% of the population “loves” their job. Isn’t that why it’s called “work”?
And, while I don’t love my job, it does grant me the ability to do other things that I love, e.g., play music in my free time, provide for a family (which I would have struggled do to on the path I was on), travel (although this is a double-edged sword because it is true that I have less time for travel than I might otherwise and it is possible to travel on a shoestring). I also don’t feel the same stresses I used to feel about having enough money for rent or other comforts. In short, while I don’t get great satisfaction from my job, I do get satisfaction from the other parts of my life that my job helps me to afford.
As pointed out a poster previously (dad was an electrician), the vast majority of people do jobs that they don’t love, but they do them because dreams don’t put food on the table.
[…] Hipster and Lawyer Two guys from my high school. One year apart. […]
Reminds me of Outliers in the chapter where Malcolm Gladwell describes his rule of 10,000 – pointing to a number of fields where prominent people separated themselves from the pack by practicing, studying, doing, etc. for literally 10,000 hours over a number of years.
In the side-by-side, one might wonder if the author of the post could have stuck with it longer and made it to expertise, prominence in his field…preeminence. Perhaps.
This blog post was great because it mentions the allure of money, which in my opinion is what this all comes down to. Many people, myself included, opted for the road that was supposed to lead to money not realizing that the time commitment and personal sacrifice necessary to get to the end. And even if you get to the end, you’ll never have Trey Anastasia money.
Phish sucks, who cares?
Now, now…let’s keep things civil.
Trying very hard to be the hipster, eh?
There’s also one thing about Trey that, while perhaps applying to most biglaw aspirants, does not apply to everyone: his family was fairly affluent. It’s a lot easier to pursue a rockstar dream when you know that, if it comes down to it, the cash for medical attention, rent, and then turning back to the square path at 30 if rock and roll doesn’t work is only a phone call away.
Good read on the whole. The core message for me is that it is worth the struggle to find out what you are really good at, who you really are, and what you enjoy doing, and spend your life discovering and doing that. There’s a bit of dreamer quality to the way this is framed, though, and as is rightly stated there are a lot fewer Trey Anastasios out there than there are failed guitarists who didn’t know when to give up the dream.
I guess I’d like to hear more from people somewhere in the happy middle between the law and rockstardom.
Justin, thanks for asking. This posting was provocative for me, as I work in a highly cutthroat profession, (animation). While I can’t relate directly on the law school issue, and I know lawyers experiencing varying levels of happiness, I’ve paid a big price for my field. No, I’m not in the thunderclap level of success types of fields like modeling, acting or music, but my field has an ever present number of people willing to work for less than I do, for any chance. I tire of freelancing and working with an ever eager pool of recent grads, and having to constantly second guess my skill sets and abilities, no matter how hard I work. Interestingly, even within my field there are those who opt for high end projects versus corporates, and ironically the corporate designer/animators are considered sellouts! I do agree with go with the heart type of thing, but in the end, you do pay a price. And I do not believe it’s a choice of Phish vs. white collar burnout.
Well Will, you may be very happy now as a therapist and think that it’s the best job in the world, but would you have done it after your Harvard undergrad? If you actually had, would you have been happy for the rest of your life? I bet not.
“My point: Being a pothead jam-band guitarist might be a better way to get rich than becoming a lawyer.”
Getting rich is mostly out of your control no matter what you do, but such advice is plain crazy.
AJ says:
“Getting rich is mostly out of your control no matter what you do, but such advice is plain crazy.”
If you become a specialist doctor/surgeon and save 50%-70% of your gross income, I’m pretty sure that you will get somewhere close to “rich”.
So, to the extent that’s “rich”, it’s not “out of your control”.
Recently discovered your blog via atl. Great stuff. I’m a 2nd yr @ an NYC da’s office who often dreams of leaving this world for the greener pastures of private practice. After about 45 min spent reading your blog, I’m convinced I need to leave all altogether to find peace. Meh.
[…] The time may just not be right, culturally. There was a great discussion about this recently on The People’s Therapist—turns out the author, Will Meyerhofer, went to high school and even played in a band with […]
I’m not sure how I missed this post last week, but I had to put in my two cents as well, as a full time government attorney and a full time phish fan. Will likes to emphasize the doom and gloom of being a lawyer, specifically a big law lawyer. To some extent, his fears are justified by the fact that people go to law school without the knowledge of what they get when they leave and rack up hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt to get there.
Here’s the secret: some people, like me, really enjoy being a lawyer. And, I can say that because I had a dream/goal/passion to do environmental law, and followed that goal with the understanding that you have to pay back student loans once you get a job. You can have that elusive work/life balance and job satisfaction if you graduate without a lot of debt and follow your dreams.
36 Phish shows and counting, and no one at my office has ever questioned me taking off a week of work to go to festival 8, or superball this summer.
this is ideal.
This post reflects the “it’s all about me” attitude that seems so pervasive these days. It’s all about loving what you’re doing, living your dream, all the Oprah nonsense over the years.
I’m an early 40’s lawyer and I feel GRATEFUL to have been able to go to law school and practise law when so many others did not have that opportunity. I worked at big law for several years then moved to government/public service to free-up time for family. I still make money in the top 10% of the population.
Do I love the law? Does it fulfill my need to be fulfilled and happy? No not at all. Some days are brutal. But the law allows me to pursue what makes me happy – my hobbies (that I can afford) and travel with my family. I can afford a house in a too expensive city, and a wife that can stay home with the little ones.
Law allows me to be a man with pride who provides for his family and kids who get to participate in activities, music and all kinds of fun stuff that costs money to do. And I’m so grateful and feel lucky to be able to do it.
Lawyers have a tendency to always look-up – rock stars and Hollywood actors earn more – waaaah! So unrealistic it’s hardly worth talking about.
Think you’d be happier as a carpenter? Try physical labor in your 40’s and 50’s, working outside in all weather and working with other trades, some of whom have substance abuse issues or criminal records.
Here’s something my grandmother said that may help you: look at the glass half full. You’re among a very elite profession that opens doors in all kinds of non-traditional practise areas. Be a little grateful and look down once in awhile, it’s not all roses everywhere else.
JTB i would love to give you a cleveland steamer! You speak the truth… the sexy, smexy, truth!
Thank you, JTP,
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