The People's Therapist

Posted in AboveTheLaw series | Tagged headhunter, junior associate, law school, law school loans | 103 Comments

103 Responses

1. on March 23, 2011 at 9:01 am | Reply JP

   Will says:

   “In any case, you’re not going to last more than two or maybe three years, because at some point, if things are not-horrible, you’re not-there. If you stay at a firm for two or three years and things are not-horrible and you are not-there, then you are not-learning, or learning mostly not-law. (This blog is an example of not-law.) Not-learning means reaching third-year knowing as much as a first-year. You wind up a not-lawyer. ”

   I spent a ton of time learning international finance, geopolitics, economics, and stock market trading. Theology and spriituality are fun too. Higher mathematics/theoretical physics is also fun. I’m finally convinced there is something to psychology, too.

   I don’t really care if I’m a “lawyer”. Don’t have any interest in it. But it’s a job and it allows economic survival. As long as you can not get fired and not commit malpractice, you’re fine. Doesn’t work at a large firm, because you have to actually have enough of an interest in what you are doing to develop business, but it can work if you are in a smaller firm.

   If you are sufficiently intelligent, you can be not-there and still survive for an indefinite period in a non Big-Law practice. I’m pretty sure my cousin has survived his entire career like this.

   
   
2. on March 23, 2011 at 9:20 am | Reply Dan

   So I was wondering. Is the whole point of your columns that law is just miserable and all lawyers are secretly unhappy and nobody should ever be a lawyer ever? Because I have serious trouble believing that to be true.

   Sure, the hours and lifestyle can be crappy, and I can totally believe that many people (possibly including me, we’ll see in a few years) hate it and realize it was a mistake. But plenty of lawyers seem happy with what they do for a living, despite the hours.

   So is your theory that they are all lying to themselves, or that they are all insane in some way, or that they’re lying to others when they appear happy? Is there any room in your world view for someone to have an experience different from yours, where they actually like the practice of law?

   Don’t get me wrong, I’ve found many of your columns to be very interesting and helpful. But I’m starting to think that you see law in an unrealistically one-dimensional way.

   
   
   • on March 24, 2011 at 3:43 pm | Reply Biglaw Associate

     “plenty of lawyers seem happy with what they do for a living”

     Key word: seem.

     There is, however, a huge difference between “biglaw” and solo or small practice. Most of the very small practice lawyers I know – several of whom once were biglaw associates – are much happier doing what they do now than when they were in biglaw, despite the fact that they’re making 30 to 50 percent less than they were before.

     
     
   • on April 6, 2011 at 4:25 pm | Reply Another biglaw assoc

     I think only a few biglaw partners — the OCD, myopic, Type-A ones who highly value money and prestige — may actually be happy; these are usually the rainmaker types or the braniacs who specialize in an area that really interests them. Of course, there may not be more than 5-10 of them at most big firms. Most other partners at big law firms do not genuinely seem happy, but they’ve got to keep earning mega-bucks to sustain the expensive lifestyles they chose and to keep sending their kids to fancy schools that will add to their social clout.

     I actually was relatively happy (a lot better than not-horrible) as a junior associate. I enjoyed the work and thought it was interesting, got a lot of “opportunities” and responsibility, and nobody was mean or rude to me. However, the amount of work is really hard to sustain over the years, and when all one gets for one’s good work is more work, and one sees that most partners are somewhere between the resigned-to-depressed scale of happiness, permanent big law firm life doesn’t seem to be a viable path. If you’re disciplined about it, though, you could pay off your loans in a few years’ time. I know a few people who have (though it is rare).

     That said, I know lawyers who practice in other settings — at small firms, for the government, in-house, at non-profits, etc. — who have more free time and seem to be much happier.

     
     
3. on March 23, 2011 at 9:37 am | Reply PTSD

   HAHAHAHA! This could not be MORE true. “Not horrible” is my standard line! (and all that means is that I didn’t bawl in my office, get yelled at or contemplate suicide today.) Your columns are hilarious, eerily on point and brutally honest.

   
   
4. on March 23, 2011 at 9:39 am | Reply Claude

   This was really difficult to read. The “not” gimmick didn’t work at all.

   
   
5. on March 23, 2011 at 9:42 am | Reply Sara

   Mmm, I hate big law but this seems a bit over the top for me. I think a lot of people really hate it, but I think a fair amount think it’s fine. Some even love it. But it’s not universally horrible for everyone. Just universally horrible for people who don’t want this sort of life/career. It’s all encompassing at times so if it’s not what you want, it’s hard to get around it.

   I don’t think being a lawyer is horrible–I think being a certain kind of lawyer if you’re a certain kind of person is horrible. I’m switching into the non-profit sector, taking a big pay cut, but I’m happy about it. I’ll be glad to be a lawyer in this context.

   
   
6. on March 23, 2011 at 9:51 am | Reply Lana

   “and all that means is that I didn’t bawl in my office, get yelled at or contemplate suicide today”

   That about sums it up for me!

   
   
   • on March 24, 2011 at 1:01 am | Reply Challenging Yet Rewarding

     Yeah that was about the standard for ‘good day’ I had when I was in BigLaw- not get yelled at, not cry, get home in time to get around 7 hours of sleep.

     As for the perceived negativity, I’m sure that people at nice normal law firms and non-lawyers think ex-BigLaw types are whiners, but this is where we come to see that there are others like us. I also think there are enough of us to support this blog and Will’s practice, even if everyone else went away. If you are not one of us and you’ve never experienced the depths of misery described in the posts, just count your blessings. I sure would like to be you.

     
     
7. on March 23, 2011 at 9:52 am | Reply Disgruntled senior associate

   Those lawyers who seem “happy” have a greater capacity for “faking it”. Its no coincidence that the lawyers who are good at putting on smiles and hiding the fact they are miserable are also the ones who bring in business and make partner. Their capacity to fake it is eased by their power to impose misery on those below them, thus further boosting their own self esteem.

   I have found that “not horrible” is actually not so bad once you accept it for what it is and find other interests in your life. I show up, do my work (and do a pretty good job at it) but am by no means “into” it. My goal each day is to leave the office as soon as possible to be with my family and pursue my hobbies. I have no desire to make partner and no aptitude for bringing in business. I wake up each day knowing this could be the day when I am fired. I have accepted that.

   Accepting “not horrible” is far better than experiencing complete misery each day by trying to pretend to be something you are not and trying to be good at something for which you just don’t have the personality.

   On the other hand, many firms are now recognizing the huge costs involved in retraining associates every 3 years and most clients just wont pay for it any longer. There are a growing number of firms that are employing “of cousel” or “staff” attorneys–associates who have no chance of making partner but provide reliable good work, even if they are not “into” it. The key to getting one of these positions is to keep busy and develop expertise that no-one else has. While your existence may be “not horrible”, at least you can stay employed.

   
   
   • on March 23, 2011 at 4:22 pm | Reply Managing Partner

     Dear Senior Associate –
     The overwhelming majority of partners actually think about it the same way that you do. Accept law for what it is, try to work on stuff that is interesting to you when you get the chance – or stuff that you need to do to pay the bills and keep people employed if there’s nothing else. Just about every partner would rather be with their family and pursue their hobbies.

     Just put in a little more work on your client development, and you will be fine.

     Where does this whole attitude of “law needs to fulfill some deep feeling in my soul” come from? Practicing law is not a religion – it is a job. If you were a ditch-digger, you would not be thinking that ditch-digging needs to fulfill you on a holistic, spiritual level. You would be looking outside of ditch digging – to your family, your hobbies, your charitable work, or your religion to offer you fulfillment. Why do people decide to take that attitude with law? Why do people think that they are entitled to more than that – or that practicing law in a for-profit law firm can provide more than that?

     
     
     • on March 23, 2011 at 5:04 pm Anonymouse

       If we were ditch-diggers, our hours would be predictable and controllable. You almost have to drink the koolaid or have no boundaries to put in biglaw hours.

       
       
     • on March 24, 2011 at 3:45 pm Biglaw Associate

       “Where does this whole attitude of “law needs to fulfill some deep feeling in my soul” come from? Practicing law is not a religion – it is a job. If you were a ditch-digger, you would not be thinking that ditch-digging needs to fulfill you on a holistic, spiritual level. You would be looking outside of ditch digging – to your family, your hobbies, your charitable work, or your religion to offer you fulfillment. Why do people decide to take that attitude with law?”

       Holy crap, that’s sad.

       
       
     • on April 6, 2011 at 4:43 pm Another biglaw assoc

       Dear Managing Partner,

       I agree that many associates expect to find deep personal fulfillment from their jobs when, in fact, it is just a job that, like any other, is meant to pay the bills and keep one interested and useful.

       The problem with many biglaw jobs is that work becomes all-consuming, such that it is often difficult to find the time to pursue hobbies or spend quality time with family and friends. And with the expectation that one will be available 18/7 (due to the Blackberry and email), one’s personal life is often interrupted by work demands on weekends and nights.

       It’s probably not a stretch to assume that the ditch-digger in your example has time to spend with his or her family and friends, go to church, relax on weekends at nights, etc. Many partners and associates, however, do not.

       
       
8. on March 23, 2011 at 9:55 am | Reply WoOZ

   I had lunch with a partner the other day. The guy is a hard-hitter, 80 hours a week kind of guy. Besides the times he said he LOVED his job (I counted 4), he mentioned that he has accepted and embraced the fact that he has to be available for his clients 24/7.
   That made me realize that the game is very simple: only the few who are “all in” will eventually succeed in this profession. If you are only working to get a check by the end of the month, if you can only describe your job as “not horrible,” and finally if you really don’t care about your clients and assignments, you may survive for some years. Hell, you might even make it to 8th, 9th or 10th year associate, but don’t complain when you don’t make partner (which is in my opinion, where the career really starts and you are actually a lawyer).
   So, I guess, the lesson for all of us is: if you are into this for the money only and feel anything less than love for what you do, you are a zombie waiting for your head to be chopped at some point. If it happens that you love what you are doing, working 80 hours a week should not be a problem for you.

   
   
9. on March 23, 2011 at 9:55 am | Reply lawbot

   “At a big law firm, it’s hard to imagine a life containing meaning or pleasure. This is a legal career: You exchange human misery for money, which pays loans.”

   Wow. That is about the most succinct and perfect description of my life at present as I have ever read. Bravo, sir.

   
   
10. on March 23, 2011 at 10:02 am | Reply ralph

    What a destructively and disturbingly narrow view of legal practice. Even assuming the primary readership of Above the Law (where I find this column) is at BigLaw, and even assuming that this column is directed at folks with large loans to pay off, there are myriad options for lawyers looking for enriching and rewarding (and remunerative) work within the law. Surely many lawyers regret having gone to law school, but just as surely, many loved the law in law school, or were idealistic about a particular kind of practice, but followed the herd to BigLaw. Federal government gigs can pay close to, or over, $100K; many small-to-medium-sized firms doing both corporate law and all sorts of non-corporate law (plaintiffs’ work of all stripes? employment law? personal injury? municipal liability?) can pay $80K or much much more.

    Perhaps it began with Will, or perhaps with ATL, or perhaps with BigLaw lawyers themselves, but there’s a presupposition here that folks are “poor” if they don’t earn a BigLaw salary, but that’s a distressing failure of imagination. Loans can be paid out over the course of 20 years — $10K/year is affordable for someone earning $90K, particularly if a spouse is working but even if the spouse (and a child) are at home. Lots of folks live happy lives with far less than $200K, plus bonus.

    The fact that some tolerate “not horrible” lives at BigLaw for years on end says more about those people — and their inability to imagine and take steps toward a life (and a practice) they might affirmatively enjoy — than it does about BigLaw itself. Will himself should recognize this, as a person who figured out that he’d enjoy life a whole lot more as a LMSW than a JD, and went after that life. People make choices all the time to choose happiness in lower-paying jobs that make even lower-paying attorney jobs look cushy.

    I’m firmly convinced that the conveyer belt bringing law students to BigLaw — that is, the ease with which folks get these jobs, the lack of imagination it takes to apply for them, and the fact that law schools’ career services push people toward BigLaw because it’s easier for them (and provides good numbers for the law schools’ reports for US News rankings) — explains why so many people enter BigLaw. But I also believe that it is primarily the result of lack of imagination or initiative that keeps an unhappy lawyer in BigLaw.

    Disregarding the wide world of legal practice (and, too, the wide world of opportunities to apply a JD to non-legal work), Will suggests that replacing “not horrible” with “good” is possible “[o]utside of law,” since “[t]he entire world isn’t as bad as a law firm just because you’re stuck in one.”

    I’m sorely disappointed that in so doing, Will blames *all* of law, and *all* of legal practice, for the misery of individual lawyers in BigLaw. I hope this does not mean that he is as unimaginative as the clients he describes.

    
    
    • on March 23, 2011 at 11:24 am | Reply JP

      Ralph says:

      “Federal government gigs can pay close to, or over, $100K; many small-to-medium-sized firms doing both corporate law and all sorts of non-corporate law (plaintiffs’ work of all stripes? employment law? personal injury? municipal liability?) can pay $80K or much much more.”

      I’m at 80K. Save about 50% of gross income (and have for my entire career). Basically a nonworking spouse and two kids. No debt. Plaintiff’s work that comes from TV ads.

      Is it better than billing hours? Yep.

      Do I feel poor? Yep.

      
      
      • on March 23, 2011 at 1:01 pm ButYoureNot

        You’re saving 50% of your gross income. Look, I work at a large law firm. If I saved 75% of my gross income and said I feel poor because I have “only” $50,000 to spend, you’d say I’m ridiculous. The money you save isn’t “gone”. You still have it, can access it if you are laid off or face another emergency, etc.

        I have never understood why lawyers talk as if they’re the only ones with debt, nonworking spouses, kids, etc. I have a well paying job that I mostly enjoy and I’m thankful for it. Full stop.

        
        
    • on March 23, 2011 at 11:48 am | Reply Jess

      <>

      Can you please provide examples of these vast and numerous opportunities?

      
      
      • on March 23, 2011 at 3:07 pm ralph

        I don’t know you and I don’t know what you’re interested in, but unless you’re a combination of entitled, lazy, and spoiled, there’s at least one job out there that you might consider applying for. Three super-obvious sites that everyone already knows are:

        http://www.pslawnet.org
        http://www.usajobs.gov
        http://www.idealist.org

        Also look at state AG offices, and public defender jobs, and state agency offices, and law school alumni job posting sites.

        And go to bar association events, and events for the subsections in the practice areas you’re interested in. Ask your friends and former professors where they work and used to work. Ask your law school’s career services office for help; they’re more than happy to connect you with fellow alums doing all sorts of non-BigLaw things.

        No, there aren’t other law jobs that get handed to you at $160K despite your lack of discernable job skills and despite your lack of serious job search. Nor is some other job that’s perfect for you where the boss is just sitting there waiting for you, and only you, to apply. Nor is there a single online job bank of every lawyer job in the country for you to peruse, pick, and choose from at your leisure from the office you already have. Nor is there a job waiting for everyone who wants to leave BigLaw. And yes, some people are financially (or emotionally) coerced into staying in a low-happiness, high-paying BigLaw job. But for someone willing to spend a bit of time and effort looking, and thinking hard about what s/he wants, and willing to take even a modicum of initiative and risk, and willing to try something even vaguely new, there’s a whole bunch out there.

        My own time in BigLaw leaves me convinced that only a vanishingly small number of people are in BigLaw because they spent — both during law school and after a year or more in BigLaw — serious time and effort looking for a medium-to-wide variety of other law jobs and came up absolutely short. Literally everyone I know who has put real effort into leaving BigLaw has done so successfully.

        
        
11. on March 23, 2011 at 10:30 am | Reply M

    I was a not-busy associate a few years ago. Indeed, it was not-horrible, although there really was nothing much to hate. I worked (was at the office) decent hours, had no night and weekend work, and otherwise did very little for my $160k. Then I got canned. It was out of the blue. I had very little work to do, so the transition wasn’t a long one. I realized that I knew how to do almost nothing that someone with one year of experience should know how to do. My credentials, which were pretty good, would only get me so far after.

    Since then, I’ve worked several non biglaw jobs, which were actually quite un-horrible. In fact those jobs were good. Working for government was very rewarding, though it certainly had its unsatisfying moments. Now I am back in biglaw, and busier than ever. It is horrible. I don’t mean “meh” and the pace now is nothing like times were when I was not busy. I believe that this kind of lifestyle could be very good for certain kinds of people. I’m just not one of them, and I live in daily fear that either 1) I will break down and not be able to keep up the insane pace and just let something huge slip or 2) everyone else will figure out that I’m full of it and fire me. The scary part is that each day I’m here I fear either of those things happening less and less, which does not mean I’m adjusting; it means I’m slipping closer to a meltdown that will end my tenure here.

    
    
12. on March 23, 2011 at 10:52 am | Reply hmmmm

    I used to enjoy this column, but its become rather redundant. We get it. You don’t like Big Law, but your posts aren’t really revealing and are becoming quite boring. I mean no disrespect to you, but it seems like you don’t have a lot of material to sustain a dynamic and interesting column. You simply repeat the same things in a different way. And each time its just so negative. You seem a bit bitter. And on top of it the content is pretty superficial. I don’t walk away from your pieces feeling like I learned something or that I was given a new perspective on something.

    I ask the same questions Dan is asking. I think there are real issues in the legal field, but looking at them from only one angle really does a disservice.

    
    
    • on March 23, 2011 at 11:05 am | Reply thepeoplestherapist

      I am bitter. Thanks for noticing.

      
      
      • on March 23, 2011 at 12:35 pm claire

        Why are you bitter Will?

        
        
      • on March 23, 2011 at 12:47 pm thepeoplestherapist

        I’m bitter because of what I see every day – young people conned into a trap, then exploited ruthlessly. I’m the guy they come to with their unhappiness and I do my best to help, but I have to stop sometimes and wonder why? Why does our society chew up these young lives and spit them out just to make money? Why don’t we take better care of one another, and ourselves? I feel like I work at a MASH unit sometimes – I sew them back up as best I can – but why are they receiving these terrible wounds in the first place?

        Look – I know a few successful lawyers, but I don’t know a lot of happy lawyers. They exist, but they’re mostly not at the big law firms, and they’re a rare enough phenomenon in general to set off alarms. Meanwhile, I see one kid after another with $180k in debt, hating every day, feeling trapped. Sorry, perhaps it’s self-selection – but that’s one hell of an awful lot of young people self-selecting. And yes, I’m angry about it, and I’m bitter. And that’s reflected in my writing – at least in these pieces, which are directed at the law community.

        My book is a whole different thing – I wrote it before I even started writing about law, and it is about life and psychotherapy and joy. Yes, lawyers can get to joy, and psychotherapy can help. I’m doing my very best to help, and from what I hear back, I’m doing some good. I just wish there weren’t so much cruelty, exploitation and plain unhappiness in the world of big law and until it stops, I’ll keep writing.

        (But don’t worry – I’ll give you a lighter one next week. We all need a breather sometimes.)

        
        
      • on November 28, 2011 at 10:16 am Cry Me a River

        Put it in perspective! You need to go someplace where people are actually impoverished. Places where people work 14 or 16 hour days, 7 days a week for little more compensation than one meal a day and place to sleep.

        Yes, BigLaw is hard. It is very competitive. Clients are demanding. Partners are greedy and will not hesitate to throw their associates under the bus. Welcome to the real World.

        I work in BigLaw and in addition to those cons, I also have a nice office with floor to ceiling windows on a high floor with great views. I have a secretary and paralegals and junior associates to assist me. I work on prestigious transactions that I can read about in the newspaper. At the end of a long day I can go home to a very nice (expensive) apartment. I can also make myself feel better by wearing very nice (expensive) clothes, going to very nice (expensive) restaurants and going to very nice (expensive) resorts for vacation (even if I have to put in a few hours a day in the hotel’s business center).

        Perhaps most importantly, all the people I work with are highly educated and articulate people. I can have insightful discussions with my colleagues about politics, history, economics, cinema, art, literature, or you-name-it.

        Would I really be happier tilting at windmills at some not-for-profit or as a starving artist or failed novelist? How is any other office job less “exploitative”?

        Stop peddling the myth that we can only be happy if our jobs “fulfill” us.

        
        
      • on November 28, 2011 at 12:08 pm thepeoplestherapist

        Stop peddling the myth that work is just a way to earn money and buy pretty things. It isn’t. It’s an expression of your innermost self. Or it should be. You’re not impoverished – you have choices. You only get one life – don’t waste it in a job you hate.

        
        
      • on November 28, 2011 at 1:10 pm Cry Me a River

        Ha ha. “[Work] is an expression of your innermost self”. That’s fantastic! Tell that to the guy who has to clean the toilets in my office (often while someone is busy using one of the stalls). Or to the person who drives the tube train I take to work (I’m in London); the parking warden who spends his days giving tickets to owners of illegally parked luxury cars in my neighborhood; the barrista making cafe lattes for minimum wage at the Starbucks where I buy my coffee. Not to mention the factory and sweatshop workers around the World who work grueling hours doing tedious jobs for miniscule pay so that I can be a good consumer. Frankly, I’m sure most of these people are happy to have a job. And I know they would call me a whiney little bitch if they heard me complaining about wearing a nice suit to my own office where I sit at a desk all day and earn loads doing it (I’m a few years in now, so earning well above the starting $160k and I’ve never even asked for a raise).

        People are miserable at their jobs (especially cushy office jobs) because they have accepted this new-agey American-dream bullshit about work being an expression of one’s innermost self. We work, at least most of us do, because we have to support the cost of living. Looking for work to do anything else for you will only lead to dissatisfaction.

        There is a great quote from The Big Chill that I think sums it up pretty well:

        “There’s some asshole at work you have to kowtow to, and you find yourself doing things you thought you’d never do. But you try and minimize that stuff; be the best person you can be. But you set your priorities. And that’s the way life is. I wonder if your friend Alex knew that. One thing’s for sure, he couldn’t live with it. I know I shouldn’t talk; you guys knew him. But the thing is… no one ever said it would be fun. At least… no one ever said it to me.”

        Continuing with suicide-related ideas, I would note that I don’t know of any lawyers who have commited suicide because of their BigLaw jobs, however I do know several who (very sadly) killed themselves when they lost their BigLaw jobs.

        The other thing I find really amusing about this blog are the two recurring themes that (a) BigLaw is “the worst job in the world” and (b) they aren’t hiring law school grads. It reminds me of the old joke about the guy who complains to the waitress in a greasy spoon that the food there is terrible and that the portions aren’t big enough.

        BTW, I’m absolutely tickled that you responded to my post. Thx.

        
        
      • on November 28, 2011 at 2:02 pm thepeoplestherapist

        Okay – those people you enumerate working low-wage jobs are mostly immigrants (at least in the USA), who aspire to more and have their eye on a prize. Who knows? Perhaps some of them are low-functioning intellectually, and actually enjoy the sort of repetitious work that you express disdain for. Or maybe they’re merely young and finding their way. I’ve worked as a bank teller and a word-processor and a prep cook in a restaurant. I actually enjoyed the prep cook gig.

        I’ve met plenty of immigrants who started out driving cabs and ended up creating corporations. We all have different dreams, and we all have to start where we are right now.

        As for law jobs not existing anymore – that’s just reality, honey. Before anyone sinks more money into law school, they need to know the market has dried up.

        For the record – I love my job. I detested law. It took me a while – and quite a few jobs – to find myself, and to find the job I love. But I would encourage everyone to take that journey. Giving up isn’t really an option, is it?

        
        
13. on March 23, 2011 at 11:07 am | Reply Les Habs

    Nearly my entire family, on both parents side, were exterminated by either the Nazis or the Communists. They know what “hell” is like and what its like to deal with real psychopaths. BigLaw associates need to stop acting like they have the worst lives ever. The BigLaw associate who commented on a previous post that she was envious of her office’s cleaning lady — a woman probably from Central or South America and just scraping by — needs to gain some goddamn perspective. A lot of your clients need a good dose of perspective and tough love.

    You want fewer hours? Go become a teacher, more free time than you could imagine. But no, these people want money and prestige, all without cramping their social life.

    
    
    • on March 23, 2011 at 3:11 pm | Reply jael

      I see you’ve never been a teacher.

      
      
      • on March 24, 2011 at 8:19 am MS

        @jael – I just tried adjunct teaching at a law school – on the whole, I prefer business people to entitled little shit students.

        
        
    • on March 23, 2011 at 5:10 pm | Reply Anonymouse

      At the point where you have to use “this isn’t an extermination camp” to make you feel better about your life, you aren’t doing that well.

      The fact that there is always something worse doesn’t mean it isn’t bad to be sleep deprived almost to the point of psychosis, verbally abused, and laden with physical symptoms. The problem is, especially in the down economy, a lot of people in my generation don’t know how to erect boundaries.

      Someone I cared about once used to say, regarding his own problems, it is sad, but it is not Rwanda-sad. He then descended into a deep depression and almost lost everything because he was unwilling to take care of himself, and instead just wanted to will away his problems.

      
      
14. on March 23, 2011 at 12:29 pm | Reply JD and Using It

    I come here for a Brief Opportunity for Joy (yes, I have the book and I’m on my 2nd reading of it). I used to get it from your columns, which led me to buy the book, but (respectfully) less so more recently. I realize that the blog is focused on ATL readers, which has a particular demographic that I apparently don’t fit, but simply focusing on the negative doesn’t seem to work for me. I like it when you explicate the grey areas, and highlight the moral dilemmas, and get me (and my non-JD wife) to think about things. I like the war stories and the feedback and, for lack of a better explanation, it serves as free therapy.

    This column doesn’t do it–it just gripes. If you want to gripe, and be bitter, then so be it. But how does it give you the Brief Opportunity for Joy? And us?

    
    
    • on March 23, 2011 at 1:02 pm | Reply PreachOn

      THIS!

      No doubt lots of lawyers are unhappy in their jobs. You know who else is unhappy in their jobs? Millions of non-lawyers. If we’re all going to sit around and say “law sucks!” then we’re not really doing anyone any favors. Quit your damn job and do something else. Live meagerly while you pay off your loans. Jeez, debt was invented before BigLaw, and people managed.

      
      
15. on March 23, 2011 at 2:00 pm | Reply JP

    But Your Not:

    “You’re saving 50% of your gross income. Look, I work at a large law firm. If I saved 75% of my gross income and said I feel poor because I have “only” $50,000 to spend, you’d say I’m ridiculous. The money you save isn’t “gone”. You still have it, can access it if you are laid off or face another emergency, etc. ”

    I deal with poor people. I just met with a client who makes $125 per month selling candy. I know I’m not poor.

    Basically it’s the extrinsic scorekeeping. Life as competition. Money = Score.

    So, “poor” isn’t a good word. How about that I feel like I’m “losing the game of life” instead.

    
    
16. on March 23, 2011 at 2:09 pm | Reply Iconoclasttt

    “I just wish there weren’t so much cruelty, exploitation and plain unhappiness in the world of big law and until it stops, I’ll keep writing.”

    Fair enough. But how exactly does a constant drumbeat of “[big]law sucks, here’s another example” contribute to “it stopping”? Or are you just venting?

    You seem to present yourself as someone who wants to change the system, but if there’s actually a suggestion or proposal buried among these tragic narratives, it’s not coming through. You may get lots of agreement–as the comments to every post indicate. But it’s much, much easier to sit around complaining than it is to effect change (whether personal or systemic).

    I had high hopes for this column when it started running on ATL, because I know my way around psychotherapy. But of late, it’s turning into unintentional(?) self-parody. Were I more cynical, I’d think it’s all about the clicks, just like everything on ATL. (Whoops, I guess I’m sufficiently cynical after all.)

    
    
    • on March 23, 2011 at 3:28 pm | Reply thepeoplestherapist

      Telling the truth effects change. Applications to law school fell last year.

      I’m writing about what I see. That’s really all it is. I write what I see, and what I hear, and what I’ve experienced.

      As for solutions – look closely, they’re in there. Putting one’s thoughts and feelings into words, and telling the truth, is the starting point for consciousness-raising, which is what psychotherapy is all about. Venting often is a solution.

      
      
17. on March 23, 2011 at 2:56 pm | Reply Laughing

    Is it horrible that I laugh my way through most of your columns? I know they’re serious, but they’re also so damn funny! I think a lot of the commenters above just don’t have a sense of humor, or haven’t grasped the fact that you do.

    
    
    • on March 23, 2011 at 3:25 pm | Reply thepeoplestherapist

      Thank you for that. I have suspected from time to time that a sense of humor would be a most welcome quality in my readers. : )

      
      
    • on March 23, 2011 at 3:49 pm | Reply Dan

      There is plenty to like in the columns, and I often find them humorous. I was just wondering (in a serious way, not in a mocking way) whether Will actually thinks that law (or at least BigLaw) is entirely about chewing people up, making their lives hell, and getting rid of them, and that no one is actually happy there.

      He mentioned a potential self-selection issue. I think that is probably true, to a large extent. He is a disgruntled (with good reason) ex-BigLaw attorney whose clientele is (as far as I can tell) made up of unhappy BigLaw attorneys. So of course those are the stories he hears. What I am wondering is if he thinks that these kinds of issues are true of *everyone*, of 90% plus, of 50%, etc. As a law student, I am looking for information from people who have been there, and I was wondering whether he sees the world of BigLaw as truly 100% irredeemably bad/evil, and I was suggesting that if he does, that seems implausible to me. But I haven’t been there, so who knows?

      
      
18. on March 23, 2011 at 3:46 pm | Reply hmm

    “I’m bitter because of what I see every day – young people conned into a trap, then exploited ruthlessly. ”

    What?? See, that’s your problem. Nobody is being conned. When you enter law school, you know full well what you are getting into. Let’s not pretend like the perils of BigLaw aren’t well documented and public.

    If your greed and desire to make six figures after 3 years of school, knowing full well that law isn’t your thing, then you can’t turn around and complain that you were conned.

    If you are spending thousands of dollars investing in a particular career path, without having fully investigated that career path, then shame on you. You weren’t conned.

    If you are sure about law, you don’t have to go to an expensive school, or enter BigLaw. But if you choose to do so, having been fully informed of BigLaw life, then again its on you. You weren’t conned.

    People need to be honest with themselves and take responsibility for the decisions they make. It doesn’t make some of the ruthlessness in BigLaw okay, but don’t act like you weren’t on notice.

    You really shouldn’t be propagating this falsehood that ppl are being conned.

    
    
    • on March 23, 2011 at 3:54 pm | Reply thepeoplestherapist

      I had no idea what I was getting into. Perhaps I should have suspected it looked too good to be true. But I guess Bernie Madoff’s victims can say the same thing.

      Wave $160k/year in front of a kid in his early 20’s who wants to impress his parents. Tell him he could become an “attorney” and get taken seriously as a grown-up. That’s about all it takes.

      
      
      • on March 23, 2011 at 4:06 pm hmm

        Yes, I think you should have. Or at least invested the time and energy to see what BigLaw was all about.

        I can’t speak to Bernie Madoff’s victims. But I can’t see how that justifies anyone jumping into anything blind. That’s just an odd and wasteful thing to do.

        
        
      • on March 23, 2011 at 4:19 pm thepeoplestherapist

        Yeah – maybe they all deserve a slap on the wrist for their youthful foolishness…but a lifetime of debt, trapped in a career they hate? Seems a bit strong.

        
        
      • on March 23, 2011 at 4:34 pm Managing Partner

        Will, I’m with you on this one, but I want to split it into two aspects. First, there appears to be considerable manipulation of the hiring statistics that are put forth by law schools in order to make the decision to go to law school seem more financially sound than it really is. This is very wrong, expecially because 1) many law schools are not for profits, and 2) law professors trade on the semi-fiduciary reputation of academia to hide their aggressive salesmanship. This leads to a lot of people who can’t get jobs as well as a lot of people who have an unrealistic impression of what the job will be like because of the smoke blown by the law school “salesman”.

        The second aspect is – assuming eveyone got a job and the job was as it was represented to be, but then they found out that they didn’t like it. Well, in that case there’s not much of a con and we have to start holding people responsible for their decisions at some time. You may respond that the cost is too high – and it is very high and I hate to see people in a bad spot. However, it was their choice. Maybe a compromise is to make the minimum age for entering law school 25 so that people have more life experience?

        
        
      • on March 24, 2011 at 5:59 pm Les Habs

        Will, you are far too smart to make such a silly and untrue comparison between Madoff and BigLaw. Without getting into the entire Ponzi scheme, Madoff engaged in deceptive, but highly clever financial practices that would have been difficult for even a relatively cautious investor to have seen that something was terribly wrong.

        BigLaw does not ever say that working for them is easy or the hours balanced. I am not nearly as smart as you (at least academically) yet I researched what life was like in big firms, I emailed associates and even partners, and would often get honest responses. Do Big Firms advertise “work for us and you will be miserable!” of course not, but should any of us expect a company that wants talent to say that? – and would it even be right to assume that working for X firm would make you miserable? Some, very few, but some, love it!

        A little research and even the slightest effort to find out about the BigLaw lifestyle is all that is needed. I did it, you and others should have as well. I don’t say “suck it up!” I don’t say “stay in a job that you hate”, but to act as if you (and your patients) have nothing to blame themselves for, or to compare them to the victims of a complex financial ponzi scheme is, and should be, beneath a man of your intelligence.

        
        
    • on March 23, 2011 at 5:15 pm | Reply Anonymouse

      Being “informed” regarding biglaw life is not the same as being actually sleep-deprived. You should try it some time. (Actually, you shouldn’t.) Months of sleep deprivation pushes you close to edges you didn’t know were there. I say this as someone who went through military training. The short-term sleep deprivation and stress I went through there in a training environment was not as bad as the long-term sleep deprivation and stress I went through as a biglaw associate on a case at a break-neck pace. (Don’t get me wrong, I’m sure being in a war zone would be way worse than biglaw. But people actually died in training exercises I completed, so that wasn’t a cakewalk, either.)

      Not only that, but when you are interviewing with firms, they say one thing to you, and other things to their hired lawyers. Regarding billable hours, write-downs, bonuses, opportunities, the whole nine yards.

      
      
      • on March 23, 2011 at 5:24 pm hmm

        I’m not sure I follow the logic re: sleep deprivation. Or the connection to my argument. I will say that I have experienced sleep deprivation before. Odd that you would assume that I haven’t.

        Before I went into law school, I was fully aware of what BigLaw would be like. Which is why I focused on mid-sized and small firms. I knew that it was not the life for me. I tried to be as educated as possible about my career choice.

        It would behoove all law students to do the same. That’s my argument.

        
        
      • on March 23, 2011 at 5:26 pm hmm

        Also, as I said elsewhere, its not an intelligent move to expect the law firms to be completely honest and forthcoming about the ills of BigLaw. It’s almost a given that they are going to paint an overly rosy picture. Fall for it if you will, but its not a good idea.

        
        
      • on March 24, 2011 at 1:19 pm Anonymouse

        I’m talking about months of sleep deprivation, not the occasional day or week. Have you been through that?

        And my point was, you can be as aware as you’d like of the supposed parameters of the job, but until you experience it, the stress associated with that can be hard to predict, even if you have previously had a demanding job. Like I did.

        People are being conned. Different firms have different levels of transparency about what it is “really” like at that firm. It can be very difficult to determine what they are lying about.

        How were you “fully aware” of what BigLaw was like? And also, I am glad that you managed to find a good place in mid and small law, I know from friends’ experiences that some of them in small and midlaw end up working almost the same hours as I do for half the pay.

        So acting like this is completely transparent and anyone who doesn’t “get it” before going into biglaw is stupid is a vast oversimplification.

        
        
      • on March 24, 2011 at 1:51 pm hmm

        “I’m talking about months of sleep deprivation, not the occasional day or week. Have you been through that?”

        – Yes. I do know what its like. There have been times when I was so exhausted that my hair started to fall out in mass. I’ve gone months like this. And I know many others who have too. I watched my sister turn into a zombie after giving birth to a child who never slept for more than 2 hours for months on end. I know you’d like to think you are so special and different in this regard, but trust, many American’s know what long-term sleep deprivation is about.

        “And my point was, you can be as aware as you’d like of the supposed parameters of the job, but until you experience it, the stress associated with that can be hard to predict, even if you have previously had a demanding job. Like I did.”

        – Agreed. You know things might be really bad, but you don’t know just how bad or how you will be able to physically deal with it. I get that, and I agree with it. But for those who take that risk anyway, knowing that law isn’t their thing, my position hasn’t changed.

        “People are being conned. Different firms have different levels of transparency about what it is “really” like at that firm. It can be very difficult to determine what they are lying about.”

        – Right. As I have said, many times, the BigLaw marketing office shouldn’t be your main source of information to begin with.

        “How were you “fully aware” of what BigLaw was like?”

        – Of course, I would have no way to know what it is like to “practice law” in an intense environment. But as a paralegal for a BigLaw firm, I was able to see first hand how associates were treated and what their lifestyles were like. Even before I started that job, I spoke to a number of lawyers about their experiences in law school and in practice. I had numerous frank conversations with associates while at the firm. Most hated their lives. I think this gave me a pretty good picture. I heard the good things and the bad. Fortunately, I also had a chance to intern at a small law firm, and I really liked how different it was from the big firm. So I wanted to focus my efforts in that area.

        “And also, I am glad that you managed to find a good place in mid and small law, I know from friends’ experiences that some of them in small and midlaw end up working almost the same hours as I do for half the pay.”

        – See, I don’t mind working long hours, at all. I just don’t like being insulted and humiliated and degraded while I do it. And fortunately for me, I won’t be making half the pay of BigLaw. I really lucked out. I’m grateful for the job.

        “So acting like this is completely transparent and anyone who doesn’t “get it” before going into biglaw is stupid is a vast oversimplification.”

        – Right. I don’t think I called anyone stupid. I did say that I didn’t buy the whole “conned” argument and that I thought making large investment decisions or pursuing a career without at least doing a bit of research was an odd and silly thing to do. I think that differs from what you say here. I also, never said that the process is completely transparent. I don’t like when ppl reconstruct your argument and then try to reject this “mutant” argument they’ve created on their own. I think that’s silly, but its extra silly when lawyers do it.

        I think the state of things is really tragic. I think the BigLaw business model is horrendous. But I also think people need to take some responsibility. The recent decrease in job opportunities in BigLaw was a blessing in disguise for a lot of ppl I know. A lot of my classmates have been forced to evaluate what they really want to do.

        
        
      • on March 24, 2011 at 4:17 pm Anonymouse

        This is the part where I think you were calling people stupid:

        “What?? See, that’s your problem. Nobody is being conned. When you enter law school, you know full well what you are getting into. Let’s not pretend like the perils of BigLaw aren’t well documented and public.”

        Of course people are being conned. And the rest of the conversation between us, where you talk about how to not buy into all this bs, is actually really helpful to naive law students who don’t realize the extent of the con. The reason I reacted negatively to your initial post is saying things like that tends to encourage people to stay in their shitty jobs–oh, it isn’t that bad, suck it up. No, sitting around weeping probably isn’t that constructive, but acting like a bad situation isn’t bad is why so many associates take so much abuse. (That and the bad economy.)

        The reason I assumed you may not have gone through true sleep dep is that many of the people in my life who are not lawyers have not. Many lawyers, even many big firm lawyers, have not. Add to the list most of the hard-working programmers I know. Some of them may have had a bad month, but that is about it. My dad, who is an engineer, has never pulled an all-nighter in his life. Not once, even in school.

        For me, it isn’t so much the fact of the hours, it is their unpredictability. I could handle a predictable 50 hours a week, though I would prefer to average 40 (and yes, I knew that wouldn’t be happening in biglaw) but having these hours pop up and down, sometimes having a slow month or two because the partners who monopolized you decided to go on vacation . . . well, that blows.

        In short–I think it is best to focus on 1) the fact that it is actually shitty, and a bunch of us do hate it, and 2) what we can do about that. Which I think your later comments do an excellent job of.

        
        
      • on March 24, 2011 at 4:41 pm hmm

        Honestly, you read into my arguments what you wanted. I NEVER called anyone stupid. How does a lawyer equate “not conned” with being stupid? Making a decision that I think is silly is not being stupid. I make no judgments about people’s mental capacities. I make silly decisions all the time, but I don’t think myself an idiot at all. But I do take responsibility for the decisions I make. Everyone should.

        And again, I NEVER EVER SAID OR INSINUATED THAT PEOPLE OUGHT TO STAY IN THEIR SHITTY JOBS. I said “take responsibility” not “suck it up”! The two are not the same! Where are you getting this madness? I actually think the opposite. If it isn’t for you, then get out. But by all means, be honest with yourself about how you got there. I don’t think its all the fault of one party. I think there are a lot of things going on in the legal industry that I don’t agree with. Which I have also mentioned many times. Read my words and not what you want them to say.

        I think I’m done with this conversation. You are attributing things to me which I never said or insinuated. Its kind of annoying. Have a nice day.

        
        
19. on March 23, 2011 at 3:50 pm | Reply hmm

    “Telling the truth effects change. Applications to law school fell last year.”

    Applications fell because there are no jobs. People have been telling the truth for ages.

    
    
    • on March 23, 2011 at 3:52 pm | Reply thepeoplestherapist

      Some – a few – have been telling the truth – I don’t know about “for ages.” But the law schools have been flat out lying – and so have the firms.

      
      
      • on March 23, 2011 at 4:03 pm hmm

        If you are relying on schools and law firms to tell it to you straight, then you’re just being silly. I knew exactly what BigLaw was about because I did my homework. If you know how to type and access the World Wide Web, then there is information out there. If you worked as a paralegal for BigLaw firm, even better. You were readily able to see what goes on.

        Those who would thoroughly investigate car options before buying, and yet spend little to no time investigating career options, before accumulating 100K in debt are silly.

        
        
      • on March 23, 2011 at 4:19 pm thepeoplestherapist

        hear hear

        
        
20. on March 23, 2011 at 4:50 pm | Reply JP

    hmm says:

    “What?? See, that’s your problem. Nobody is being conned. When you enter law school, you know full well what you are getting into. Let’s not pretend like the perils of BigLaw aren’t well documented and public.

    If your greed and desire to make six figures after 3 years of school, knowing full well that law isn’t your thing, then you can’t turn around and complain that you were conned.”

    I agree with this.

    In fact, I remember what made me decide to go to law school. 80 hour work weeks for I guess $80K/year (back in 1995). I was already in chemical engineering, basically because it was the highest paying engineering. I had no interest in doing it and realized that over the course of my career I wouldn’t be able to make as much money as I wanted to make.

    I figured that practicing law couldn’t be worse than chemical engineering.

    In hindsight, the answer was dermatology (wow, is there money there! or radiation oncology).

    So I’m very bitter about that. But that’s my stupidity.

    In fact, all of my problems were basically caused by me.

    I’m very bitter with myself and I blame me.

    I’m still considering talking myself into med school. I just don’t know whether I can stomach the 4 years of more school plus 4-5 years of residency/training. I definitely don’t have it in me to do neurosurgery. Mabye. I could dig brain surgery.

    I could have solved a lot of my problems if I had not had problems adjusting to college. Apparently, social isolation, skipping class, consistently considering dropping out, randomly failing classes, and sleeping all the time are indications that you are not adjusting well.

    I was basically completely broken and burnt out when I *started* law school. What a fiasco. Nearly dropped out my first year because I despised life so much.

    When compared to college, life in a law firm was a magical time of wonder for me. Even with the panic attacks.

    
    
21. on March 23, 2011 at 5:22 pm | Reply Jr Assoc

    Not- helpful

    
    
    • on March 23, 2011 at 8:08 pm | Reply thepeoplestherapist

      Cute.

      
      
22. on March 23, 2011 at 7:15 pm | Reply Ted

    I worked at large firm with large expectations representing large companies. I hated it. I dreaded Sunday nights because I dreaded Monday mornings. I knew I didn’t belong there. I’m sure it showed to all of my co-workers.

    I began looking for a different job and about 3 months into my search I was fired. And instead of being the worst day it was actually pretty great. I felt a huge sense of relief. I also found a job doing plaintiff’s personal injury work.

    Three years later I’m still doing plaintiff’s personal injury work. And I love my job. I get paid a lot less but the work is fun, interesting, and rewarding.

    When I read these posts, I know the feeling these miserable attorneys are experiencing. But it can get better.

    
    
23. on March 23, 2011 at 9:50 pm | Reply greenfrog

    I kind of like that Will is exploring this issue from all angles. The misery of lawyers is a very real phenomenon (my therapist works with lawyers a lot too and says the same thing). But I look forward to different articles too – I think Will is pretty strong on dating / love as well.

    I also think that Will is on to something, with his “Life is a Brief Opportunity for Joy” thing. It’s just hard to see when you can’t see your way around years of law practice and billing.

    If I had to summarize the problem, I would say that people are organic beings that need fulfillment on different levels, not just that of money and superficial status. People *need* art, beauty, love, craftsmanship, sports, creativity, philosophy, education, etc. But law, which is so all-encompassing, and is basically mechanical and coldly rational, for the most part cannot provide these things. In their drive for career success, many lawyers try to persuade themselves that they can do without them – a kind of hubris. But sooner or later it catches up to you – or not, which is a worse fate, IMO.

    
    
    • on March 24, 2011 at 7:47 am | Reply JP

      Greenfrog says:

      “If I had to summarize the problem, I would say that people are organic beings that need fulfillment on different levels, not just that of money and superficial status. People *need* art, beauty, love, craftsmanship, sports, creativity, philosophy, education, etc. But law, which is so all-encompassing, and is basically mechanical and coldly rational, for the most part cannot provide these things. In their drive for career success, many lawyers try to persuade themselves that they can do without them – a kind of hubris. But sooner or later it catches up to you – or not, which is a worse fate, IMO.”

      This is partially true. However, you need to add “spiritual and mental” to “organic” beings as well. Art, beauty, and love are actually on the spiritual level. The Good, Beautiful and True, so to speak.

      I pretty much tried to make myself purely mechanical and coldly rational at a very young age. Probably mid to late teens thinking back on it.

      
      
24. on March 24, 2011 at 1:30 am | Reply TL

    I find your writing quite refereshing actually. I believe people try to pretend like they are happy practicing at big law firms because they don’t want to reveal to others that they made a bad decision. Sure, a very small number of people seem to thrive at the pressures of big law, but for most, I am sure they would do something else if they weren’t either strapped by debt or trapped by other people’s expectations of them.

    
    
25. on March 24, 2011 at 4:15 am | Reply BigLaw Refugee

    This is for the law student who asked whether the anti-BigLaw perspective is accurate. As someone who worked for most of my career in BigLaw, a short stint in a small firm and a short stint in the government, my answer is: yes and no.

    Big law firms are businesses, and their business model has certain realities that contribute to associate misery. These include: 1) to justify a $160K salary plus benefits and an expensive private office, they need billable hours to be high on average; 2) because they handle a lot of high-stakes matters, partners typically micromanage, even if it’s not their personality, because they need to be able to tell clients they’ve given their matter the attention it deserves; 3) because large matters require large teams and because partners need to appear on top of things anytime a client calls, a disproportionate amount of your time is spent keeping the partner/other team members up to date on what you’re doing, as opposed to doing it; 5) because big firms charge so much, there is an emphasis on doing “perfect” work (reflected primarily in superficial matters such as lack of typos) rather than on achieving the client’s objectives; and 6) because big firms charge so much, they often attract clients who make a lot of last-minute demands for memos, updates, etc. (either because the client is a large, dysfunctional company itself, or because the client representative thinks, “with what we’re paying them, we can demand whatever we want”). I think all of these factors that make BigLaw horrible can be reduced by going to a SmallLaw job, in-house, or working for the government.

    On the other hand, a lot of what you read about here – abusive partners, shock and dismay at the concept of personal time, etc. – is not inherent to BigLaw. When you go to work for a BigLaw firm, you don’t know (except possibly if you have established a relationship with a partner before going) who you’ll work with. Some partners are total jerks; others are extremely considerate. Some give no responsibility and useless or harsh feedback; others give responsibility and take the time to help you grow as a lawyer. Some have no respect for your personal life; others will take lots of extra work on themselves to protect your personal life; a majority will take the attitude that as long as your work is getting done, you can be where you want, when you want. (Yes, that means being available on Thanksgiving – but only if the client calls with an emergency or you have a filing due the next week – not for random non-urgent assignments.) Some of those happy BigLaw lawyers you hear about are genuinely happy because they enjoy the law, and they got to work with good people.

    I do think that BigLaw disproportionately attracts, and retains, people who are more aggressive, more perfectionistic, more controlling, and less empathetic than is typical (and law in general attracts more of those people than other jobs). So you will certainly experience some jerks in BigLaw, and possibly a lot of them. But it’s not a foregone conclusion, and if you do good work and are “into it” then you tend to start to have more power, and more control over which people you work with, as your career progresses.

    If I had it to do over again, I would spend at most a couple of years at a BigLaw firm. The lack of responsibility reduces your long-term earning potential as well as making it less rewarding, plus the long hours led me to feel at times that I was wasting some of the best years of my life. On the other hand, I actually did learn quite a bit and had the opportunity to work with people who were, with only a couple of exceptions, pleasant to be around. I got to have a number of unique experiences that I couldn’t have had anywhere else. It definitely wasn’t all bad, but when you factor in higher marginal tax rates, spending more $ because people around you spend it, spending more $ because you’re too busy to economize, etc., I’m not sure that people who stay in it “for the money” are really making the right cost-benefit analysis.

    And that’s before the cost of therapy!

    One more consideration: many people who are unhappy in BigLaw are unhappy in part because they just don’t like the law – and you really can’t blame BigLaw marketing for that. For those people, BigLaw may actually be the best choice, because a few years at BigLaw is a great starting point for all kinds of law-related sales and consulting jobs (headhunters, ediscovery providers, technology or practice management consulting) as well as for in-house jobs (which are often very different from law firm jobs and are less about law, and more about just helping keep a business running in a variety of ways).

    My best advice for prospective lawyers is to talk to alumni – lots of them. Get lists of alums from your college and law school career centers and set up informational interviews. Find out what they are doing 5-25 years out of law school, what the day-to-day is like, what they do and don’t like. It’s the best way to decide what you want to do after law school, plus you may establish connections that will help you get a job and/or get hooked up with the “good” partners at a BigLaw firm.

    
    
    • on March 24, 2011 at 2:03 pm | Reply leavinglaw

      Nicely balanced view of BigLaw, esp. the part about the types of people BigLaw tends to attract.

      There are so, so many people in BigLaw who shouldn’t be in law at all. They are lawyers because they are bright and generally capable people, didn’t have a clear sense of what they wanted to do with their life, and law would please parents/peers/society and “give them lots of options.”

      There’s a lot of blame for lawyer unhappiness that can (and should) be heaped at law schools’ doors. Law school marketing practices are jaw-droppingly unethical, and if med schools acted like that, you can bet they would have already been sued. Plus, law school offers almost no opportunity to find out what working as a lawyer is like, which is a serious downfall.

      But the root of the problem isn’t unique to law. As a society, we do a completely crap job of helping students link up to what they actually enjoy, and would therefore tend to be good at, which would tend to make them happy and thrive financially. Instead, we point them at goals, and “making money” tends to be the top goal in our extrinsically driven society. Any wonder people suffer mid-life (or earlier) crises?

      Indeed, to check off all the boxes on their way to law school and practice, many people suppress their genuine interests and talents–in other words, they deny themselves the things that could give them real joy and a great life. I spend at least half of my time helping clients figure out what even makes them happy. Getting them to act on that knowledge can be really difficult, but the ones who do are glad they did.

      
      
    • on March 24, 2011 at 2:06 pm | Reply Law Student

      Thank you, this is a very helpful post. As someone in the job hunt and trying to figure out the angles, this helps put the different opinions in perspective.

      
      
26. on March 24, 2011 at 10:19 am | Reply PTSD

    I also find your writing refreshing and truly therapeutic. You put into words so much of what everyone feels but no on talks about. Your posts are not “negative,” they are HONEST. Sometimes things in the world are negative. You are simply accurately documenting your experiences and the experiences of your clients.

    As to the “you knew what you were doing” sentiment expressed by some of the commenters, I was 21 when I entered law school, and 23 when I was a summer associate and accepted my offer for BigLaw. I had no clue what I was doing, and there weren’t a thousand blogs back then “documenting” the misery of BigLaw associates. Even “knowing,” though, wouldn’t be understanding at that age.

    If you LOVE BigLaw and everything is awesome, why are you reading this column?? Go out and get clients and organize a summer associate bowling night. I’ll be here, waiting for the next post on this site!

    
    
27. on March 24, 2011 at 10:33 am | Reply hmm

    “why are you reading this column??”

    People, like myself, have come here hoping to see the psychologist’s perspective on law firm life generally. I got that a few times, but not since then. I continue to scan the articles hoping that he’ll talk about something different. He never does. If this blog is just about the depressing things about BigLaw, then fine, I won’t be coming back. His header says: “A therapist’s take on life, the world, you and me.” Misleading I think.

    
    
28. on March 24, 2011 at 11:13 am | Reply 0L

    You are either:

    1. the worst therapist ever; or
    2. brilliant at creating a new client base.

    Either way, I need to make an appointment with you for sudden, blog-induced depression.

    
    
29. on March 24, 2011 at 1:05 pm | Reply Careared

    Wow. This post really hit home to me. When I worked at a law firm, I became resigned to the fact that my life would be not horrible, and that’s the best that I could hope for. My standards for a “good day” were set so low that I considered it a victory when I was able to suppress the existential dread that consumed me most of the time. You are so right that it’s like living in purgatory, which is not really living at all.

    
    
30. on March 24, 2011 at 3:38 pm | Reply Biglaw Associate

    Holy crap. This is so totally and completely directly on point, it’s gut-wrenching.

    I am, I suppose, “fortunate” in that I don’t have any student loan debt. I graduated law school completely debt-free. The only debt I have now if my mortage.

    But damn, this really is totally 100% dead on.

    I mean:

    “If it’s not-horrible, you’re probably not-busy, because if you were busy, it would be horrible. You’re also probably not into it. If you were into it, you’d be trying to make partner, which would be horrible, but you wouldn’t be saying it’s horrible. You probably wouldn’t be saying it’s not-horrible, either.”

    THIS.

    I want out. Two of my good friends have just submitted their notice. I need to figure out when I’m going to follow them out the door.

    
    
    • on March 24, 2011 at 5:24 pm | Reply JP

      I’d get rid of the mortgage while you are still there. If you’re not having panic attacks or actively suicidal, that is.

      It feels better when you don’t have a mortgage.

      On a side, note, I also really need to get some training on how to deal with histronic suicidal clients. Do I call the police? Call the ambulance? 15 minutes of listening to that yesterday. There have to be some bar rules on this one.

      I’m calling my psychiatrist brother-in-law for this one.

      Note: I prefer listening to histronic suidical clients to billing hours and/or legal writing.

      
      
31. on March 24, 2011 at 8:18 pm | Reply Realist

    What is the purpose of your column? Each post is written for people who are miserable in their jobs. And each is the same. Your advice can be summed up in a sentence: “Quit as soon as you pay your loans off…or before”

    
    
    • on March 24, 2011 at 8:19 pm | Reply thepeoplestherapist

      Well, maybe. But you have to admit…it’s good advice.

      
      
32. on March 24, 2011 at 8:38 pm | Reply Now Solo

    Will,

    I just stop by occasionally now, but was once a daily reader (aka glued-to-my-desk-cog in BigLaw) who could not wait for your weekly insights and the perspective that you bring.

    Please keep doing what you are doing — even if redundant to some — because you are positively making a difference to so many.

    Best Regards,
    Now Solo (5 months and loving it)

    
    
33. on March 25, 2011 at 6:07 am | Reply The Fake Frog

    A not horrible for me was actually the days when I had any work to do at all. I started working in a medium size law firm just before the downturn and out of three years I must have gained the equivalent of one year (a year and a half at a push) of actual work experience. There were entire weeks where there was nothing to do. All the associates tried to hold on to anything they had and juniors were just not given anything to do. That I found was the most dispiriting of all. I had for the most part good supervision and nice people to work with but absolutely nothing to do.

    It was no surprise to anyone when the firm told the entire 2007 intake that there would be no job for us by September 2009 (and to their credit they worked hard to get everyone a replacement job either with other firms, outside of law or re-recruited some people a few months down the line) but it really felt like I had wasted a good year out of two. Sadly the next law job I got ended up in the same way, nothing to do (with the addition of a psycho-screaming boss).

    What I find a little depressing now is that I look at my non-law friends and they all have nearly 10 years experience in whatever they’re doing when I can barely show about 5 years of some sort of work experience (including two as a paralegal and *cough* “three” as a lawyer) and many, many years of studies…

    Don’t know if I’ll go back into law, but what a waste of time…

    
    
34. on March 25, 2011 at 6:54 pm | Reply Ara

    I was a paralegal before law school, and am a junior associate now. When I was a paralegal, I felt surrounded by bookish, not-a-people-person lawyers. Being bookish and not-a-people-person myself, I thought I’d fit right in. But it turns out, now that I’m an associate, that my lack of people skills is a real blind spot. I believed lawyers when they smiled and said they were happy. Like I said, my people skills are lacking, and I’m not good at reading the nuance behind things. I’m not good at navigating the office politics and understanding what’s really going on when one thing is said and another thing is done. People’s Therapist blog posts that speak honestly like this one help me piece together what is going on, so that I can make decisions that align better with what I really want to do. Thank you.

    
    
    • on March 25, 2011 at 8:16 pm | Reply JP

      Yep, I realized a few years ago that maybe the entire reading books and playing computer games 24 hours a day for the past 10 years (I exaggerate) and not developing any ability to actually navigate a social environment was actually interfering with my ability to actually function in a law firm and make partner. Part of the reason I disliked college so much was my 5 years of basic social isolation. Law school wasn’t much better for me, although it was somewhat better.

      Apparently you actually need to be able to understand social cues and have some ability to actually develop some sort of business network to do well in law (and live a meaningful life). Who knew?

      Of course, such issues are going to create a problem in *any* adult envionment. So, it’s not just a law issue, but rather it’s a life issue.

      
      
      • on March 29, 2011 at 12:36 pm Disgruntled senior associate

        This is what angers me the most. Being a “nerdy”, “bookish”, intellectually curious, critical thinker are the very traits that ensure you get into law school and that make one excel at reviewing/drafting contracts; writing briefs, etc. However, law firms then penalize you BECAUSE you have these skills and lack “business skills.”

        The profession lures smart, hardworking, many times socially awkward young adults with promises of intellectually challenging work, good pay, and job security and then burns them up and throws them out the window due to their lack of ability/willingness to behave like a used car salesman.

        There is the old saying that “those who can do and those who can’t teach.” In the legal professional, the expression is translated into “those that can become burned out worker bee associates, those that can’t fake it for a few years and then become partner.”

        Prospective students are sold on the idea that this is still a PROFESSION and are then disheartened to discover it is a zero sum “i want my piece of the pie” business scam.

        The people that would prefer writing a supreme court brief to playing 18 holes with the local real estate mogul are used, abused, and thrown away, while the socializing bullsh!ters schmooze and make it to the top.

        
        
35. on March 26, 2011 at 9:57 am | Reply greenfrog

    My advice? Baby steps. Volunteer somewhere for an hour a week. Write one short article (at first I wrote for free, and my first paying article was approximately 80 words. I’ve since worked my way up to 650+ word articles for a national magazine). Take a once-a-week night course in an area that interests you (I did this too, twice, and it eventually paid off big-time). Meditate, even for ten minutes a day. Take a yoga class. See a good therapist. Eventually these seemingly insignificant things add up – and they really can change your life over time.

    And quit, if you need to. In my experience, the universe tends to meet you halfway when you step off the plank. Friends/family/mentors/teachers can help. But you do need some money to live on.

    
    
36. on March 28, 2011 at 1:00 am | Reply SA

    can you write a piece about public interest law graduates who are passed over by public interest orgs to accommodate laid off firm attorneys? ask us how bitter we are now.

    
    
    • on March 28, 2011 at 5:50 am | Reply thepeoplestherapist

      That’s always been the case. I was told at the ACLU that they wanted at least a few years experience at a firm – and that was back in 1995.

      
      
      • on March 28, 2011 at 8:18 am MS

        Yep. I interviewed with the local US Attorney this year – whether in civil rights, criminal or otherwise, they wanted big firm experience and a lot of billable hours (as though THAT would be relevant). Weirdly narrow minded.

        
        
      • on March 28, 2011 at 9:06 am JP

        I could be because the best marker they could conceive of with respect to status/success/legal intelligence is getting into the “best” firm you can get into and billing 2400+ per year. All the cool attorneys do that. You get the best experience! And you get to be important!

        Kind of like the best and the brightest go to HYS.

        I suppose the moral of the story is to investigate the CVs of U.S. Government attorneys / ACLUers or whatever it is for which you want to go do with yourself.

        If you’re like me and never knew what to go do with yourself in the first place…well, I suppose the moral is that you won’t be working for the U.S. Gov’t.

        I applied recently for a U.S. Attorney position. They sent me a “we received 2000+ applications for this position. I didn’t get the job. So, I will continue to litigate and win cases against these U.S. Attorney.

        Now, I also applied for an open NASA patent position, but I think that one was yanked before I got rejected.

        
        
      • on March 28, 2011 at 1:01 pm MS

        @JP below – FWIW I interviewed in a semi-lark, and was extremely put off by the attitudes of some of the interviewers. No loss to me that it was apparently unacceptable that I knew a topic area in depth from a big firm but wasn’t a commercial litigator from said big firm (because apparently litigation skills cannot be learned, but other areas of law can be?). Not impressed, not disappointed.

        
        
37. on March 29, 2011 at 9:59 pm | Reply noonan

    Law is like other fields, in that employers are looking for a demonstrated track record of success. While attending good school, getting good grades, and landing generally respected positions (whether via clerkships or in law firms or government departments) are no guarantee of future success, these things inevitably help. Plus, law is more conservative than most fields, so this tendency in hiring is exacerbated.

    Unfortunately, this mindset, coupled with the scarcity of jobs and the intense competition in the profession, leads to many otherwise qualified – and interesting or unusual – candidates being turned away from public interest or public sector jobs.

    I landed a great public interest job, but the competition was apparently fierce. I didn’t have a BigLaw background, but I worked for a couple of top professors, completed a judicial clerkship, gained several years of practice experience, and had some relevant non-law experience that made me a better candidate – with very strong references from all quarters. In other words, it took the perfect storm for me to land the position (one with a very ordinary salary and benefits). And I started on contract, with no guarantees of being kept on staff. Yes, it’s tough out there…

    
    
38. on April 9, 2011 at 10:13 pm | Reply Sam Abernathy

    “As a junior, you’re asking for not-much. You’ve realized law school was a mistake – and the thought of your loans makes you queasy. If you get through the day without being criticized or given some god-awful assignment, you can go home and try to sleep. That’s a good day.”

    Who are you to make such a generalization? I can’t imagine having you as a therapist. You’re just too presumptuous. And from your replies to peoples comments it seems you think you’re doing good and are just this great person. I just can’t imagine how unhappy you must be that you have to make such sweeping generalizations. It’s obvious that you had no interest in the law to begin and were stupid enough to pursue it, and then when you failed at it because of your lack of passion, work ethic, and interest in the profession you became bitter. And now you want to blame the system for your stupidity and personality issues. Law school is LAW school. BigLaw can be tedious and involves a lot of paperwork and work. These are facts that couldn’t possibly have been shrouded in secrecy when you were applying to law school. If you had simply done some research, asked people, looked into legal texts or judicial opinions or cases (and seen if they interested you) or into the type of work the law firms that you thought would pay so well were doing, maybe you wouldn’t have ended up in this mess. There is no scam. No one knows what being a doctor is like until you actually do it, but you can always tell by doing some research. Just ask a resident and they’ll tell you they get no sleep, or ask a friend of a resident, or ask a career counselor or a professor at the medical school of the college you went to. You had no passion for the law or corporate work and you paid the price for being an idiot. It’s like a gummy bear joining the army. The truth is that you’re not some inspirational tale of a man finding himself, you’re a cautionary tale of fools who don’t follow their passions and go into things for the wrong reasons. You were greedy and stupid. And now, you’re an ass.

    
    
    • on April 10, 2011 at 3:31 am | Reply The Fake Frog

      Sam

      Are you actually a lawyer? If you are I am surprised that you haven’t yet realized how remote from LAW lawyering actually is.

      It seems you’re generalizing as much as Will is. So people who have left their jobs as lawyers because they are disillusioned and have realized how amazingly boring and often soul destroying the work is, had, as you put it, “no interest in the law to begin and were stupid enough to pursue it, and then when [they] failed at it because of [their] lack of passion, work ethic, and interest in the profession [they] became bitter. And now [they] want to blame the system for [their] stupidity and personality issues”? But of course!

      Let’s take this in turn shall we? “No interest in the law” in most areas of law (with maybe the exception of litigation), as a lawyer, your work is about 30% related to law and 70% akin to secretarial/ admin work. In many firms you are merely an enhanced secretary, do not kid yourself. You are rarely analyzing the law, applying it or even thinking about it. You are reviewing 300 pages corporate documents for spelling mistakes, you are using well used templates that you have not yourself drafted and in most cases even your correspondence will be very tightly controlled (i.e. you have to write in the same “tone” as your supervising partner).

      I will readily admit to you that occasionally you will be asked to draft a memo on a point of law. These are the “not horrible” days where you can do a small dance of joy and actually enjoy the LEGAL work.

      “Lack of passion, […], and interest in the profession” Oh please! A great number of lawyers who were truly passionate about the law have left the profession just because it’s stressful, boring and largely unrelated to law. You know what? They took their passion and skills and general awesomeness elsewhere, to people who were actually grateful for their work. If you are a lawyer try to enquire as to whether your clients are actually grateful for your work. They rarely are. They see any advice you give them as an impediment to developing and running their business and an expense they would like to do without.

      “Bitter”, hell yes! When you love the law, are actually attached to how laws are drafted, applied and amended by both governments and courts, when you actually thought your career would involve you using this knowledge and interest, and what it actually turns out to be is that quasi- admin work that anyone with half a brain could do, of course you’re going to be bitter!

      “[lack of] work ethics […] stupidity and personality issues” cheap insults from someone who, I guess, has spent very little time actually working as a lawyer.

      Of course Will’s comments will not ring true to everyone. I have friends who truly love their job as lawyers and happily accept the most mundane aspects of it. Good for them! For others it’s good to hear that someone else was disappointed as much as they were.

      
      
      • on April 11, 2011 at 2:53 am Sam Abernathy

        Yeah it may be true that BigLaw involves a lot of tedious work that has only peripheral implications and associations with the law, but the fact that this “therapist” didn’t leave for another profession within the law, and that he focuses so much on “the scam” of law school and and says that the prospect of making buckets of money after three years of school was primarily why he went kind of shows he’s a ridiculously and unfairly biased example of what BigLaw does to people. People who go to law school primarily for the hope of making money at a law firm kind of have it coming when you think about it. After realizing just how little the work at a law firm has to do with the law, though how much that’s true depends on the firm, why not leave for a job in academia, or as appellate lawyer or public defender? He specifically changed his entire career cuz he failed at something he had no genuine interest in. Then, to go on and criticize law firms for stealing people’s souls, when many of them don’t, and calling it all a scam and purporting these opinions as gospel truth with extraordinarily, and unnecessarily, vitriolic language that doesn’t do the profession justice for those who enjoy the work, is just wrong. I understand that people identify with him and don’t like law firm work. Sure many passionate people who love the law leave law firms because of the few major legal issues they get to contemplate. But for the most part, people have every opportunity to know what they’re getting themselves into. Law school isn’t a scam for people who love the law and want to add to it, but this guy says it’s a scam no matter what and that law firms are just evil. He’s a bad example because he didn’t truly want to add to the law or work in it to begin with. You would think he’d be more humble and contrite, regretting his foolish decision to go to school for something he had no interest in. It’s grating that he instead chooses to blame the system that works for a lot of other people.

        
        
      • on April 11, 2011 at 5:11 am thepeoplestherapist

        Ooooo…now I’m a “therapist” – in scare quotes, no less. And all I had to do was report what I see.

        
        
39. on April 11, 2011 at 6:42 am | Reply The Fake Frog

    Sam

    The problem I personally see with your argument is that you seem to equate leaving the profession or the law as a whole as “failing”.

    There is no failure in leaving a profession, any profession, because it makes you miserable and you hate having to go to work in the morning. It does not mean you were not good at it, it doesn’t mean you couldn’t hack it, it just means you’ve realised you’d be happier doing something else.

    I very much doubt all of the posters above who are leaving or have left the law, including myself, are failed attorneys or people who can’t take the pressure. I think we’re just people who would happily do something else with their time.

    Interestingly, when someone quits their job in banking, marketing, procurement, anything really, no one comes up to them and say, “oh you couldn’t hack it that’s why you left”. Everyone just assumes that they just didn’t like it and just changed career. Why should it be so different for lawyers? It’s just that there is that aura to being a lawyer that there isn’t in other professions (and a large number of people who think very highly of themselves…)

    Besides I’d surely be a lot more bitter myself if I had had to pay extortionate fees to get myself through law school because I was led to believe that being a lawyer would bring me transferable skills, an interesting job and financial security but I ended up finding out that actually I got none of that and accrued debts as high as if I’d bought a house.

    I know, and I’m sure so does Will, that the system does work for some people but it fails for a huge number of others. It’s nice to see someone who gives them a voice.

    
    
    • on April 11, 2011 at 7:34 am | Reply JP

      Law school is only a really a financial scam if you fall into the lowest portion of the trimodal distribution of the lawyer annual salaries, that of Starbucks barista.

      I don’t really mind the admin work. Just as long as I avoid legal writing and analysis, I’m good. That might change if the legal writing and analysis involved some higher order thinking or actually accomplsihed something useful at a level above the individual client level, but legal writing, as it is utilized in law practice, is painful.

      But then I got into the legal profession because I essntially failed undergrad and had no idea what to go do with myself. I was just glad I could LSAT my way into the T14. If I had actually figured out how to actually do high quality academic work in undergrad, I probably wouldn’t have ended up in law.

      I’m also more interested in reaching what I believe to be the right result than I am with arguing a position in which I do not believe.

      So, I’m different, anyway.

      
      
    • on April 11, 2011 at 9:16 am | Reply MS

      Hear hear, Fake Frog – well said.

      There is no shame in leaving a profession to be happier, and do more fulfilling work. There IS shame in being trapped in something because you fear what (judgmental, narrow-minded, status -conscious) others might think.

      There is only honor in making meaninful choices that make your life better and increase your odds of actually DOING something meaningful with your life.

      I’m a very good lawyer, I do quality work and am respected and have a few “prestigious” state bar roles. However, law has never brought me anything approaching happiness or fulfillment (why would it? it’s just a job, it isn’t life) – when/if I leave, I won’t be ashamed, and no one’s opinions otherwise will matter.

      I will hope for the same from readers of this and other legal work/life blogs.

      
      
    • on April 12, 2011 at 8:59 pm | Reply Sam Abernathy

      TOTALLY not my intention to equate it with failing. I think I was just fundamentally annoyed at how incredibly biased thepeopelestherapist is, and said that he failed in a kind of subconscious attempt to “match” his own acidic language. Leaving the profession and starting a new one is admirable, but burning out of the profession and then generalizing all-knowingly about it is just destructive rhetoric with no substance. It’s frustrating to see.
      I also doubt that anyone who leaves leaves because of the pressure or “failed” at law, but it’s obvious that Will did. I think that he’s a member of a fringe of lawyers who had no interest in the law, pursued it for the money, and got their comeuppance. Private practice killed HIS soul and made HIS life miserable. It doesn’t do that all the time, or even most of the time.
      The fact that he’s so unbalanced and judgmental makes me think that if faced with a law partner who loved their time as an associate, has a loving family, and deeply enjoys their work and the congeniality of their firm and the people they meet he would just scoff and think there HAD to be something wrong with them. He’s an example of people we don’t need more of.

      
      
      • on April 12, 2011 at 9:30 pm thepeoplestherapist

        Sam – I was taking bets today with a friend on whether you’re a paralegal. I actually figure you’re a law student. It’s not simply your naivite – it’s your fierce over-reaction to my columns that makes me think you must be a student. The lady doth protest too much. No one who’s ever been an associate at a big firm, let alone a partner, would delve into hyperbole like yours in defense of what is by all accounts a grueling life.

        Let me put it this way: I talk with partners and associates from top firms all day long, all week long. I’m reporting what I’m seeing. I’m not making it up – and yes, I went to a top law school and a top firm, so I’ve been there myself and have my own personal take on things which matches up with a great deal of what I hear from others.

        I’m not saying that all lawyers are unhappy, or that I don’t attract the unhappy ones. I’m just saying there sure are one hell of a lot of unhappy ones – and I haven’t been running into any of the happy ones, at least not at big law firms. If they’re out there, I’d like to meet some. I’ve seen happy prosecutors and public defenders, and a few fairly happy federal employees and in-house folks and sort of happy people in the not-for-profit sector. But in big law…not so much. I’m sorry if that offends you, but I’m calling it like I see it.

        And yes, I am a superb psychotherapist (not a “psychotherapist” but a psychotherapist.) My work begins with telling the truth, which I try to do at every available opportunity. It also begins with respect. I hope you’ll give my book a try. Thanks for writing in. Will

        
        
    • on April 14, 2011 at 11:09 am | Reply Les Habs

      “I actually figure you’re a law student. It’s not simply your naivite – it’s your fierce over-reaction to my columns that makes me think you must be a student.”

      Over-reaction? This from the guy who compares BigLaw to the Madoff scam!? Many people do use their time in BigLaw to jump into better things (Gov, in-house, academia, etc.). BigLaw is or can be grueling most of the time, but it does have its positives – financially, connections, and resume building. He is also totally right that many or most people go into it for the wrong reasons – it is not BigLaw that is soul crushing, it is a business and when you were hired it assumed you wanted to be a lawyer – if you did not, if you sold your soul for the money or prestige, you can’t then point at the firm and say “you stole my soul!!!” No it didn’t, YOU sold it to the highest bidder.

      Plus, most of BigLaw misery could be avoided if people did their research beforehand (like I did). Will, what is your problem with personal responsibility? That seems absent in much of your writings about law firms and law schools. Its always someone else’s fault.

      
      
      • on April 14, 2011 at 11:34 am thepeoplestherapist

        I’m not personally responsible for the abusive, toxic obsession with billable hours – and the greed of law schools – that is destroying lives at big law firms. That is someone else’s fault. I’m busy trying to repair the victims of that system.

        
        
      • on April 14, 2011 at 12:19 pm Les Habs

        Of course you are not responsible for the billable hours – I never said otherwise. As for greed, I suppose it wasn’t greed when you accepted a BigLaw job (I assume you accepted of your own free will as oppossed to being forced at gun point)? It wasn’t greed when your other biglaw clients lied in their interviews about their passion for law or the firm when their real passion was money, prestige or both?

        I’m not here to defend law schools (a majority are unethical, hypocritical, self-interested institutions) nor BigLaw. I think you do a service to your clients and to prospective students and lawyers. However, what I do have a problem with is the attitude or contention that there is nothing positive about BigLaw (not true) or that smart people (you are obviously one of them) were ‘conned’ or were hapless victims, when you and your clients could’ve avoided much suffering if they had (1) done their research before accepting a BigLaw job (I did so, and better off for it) and/or (2) been a little less ‘greedy’ themselves.

        I also get sick and tired of hearing BigLaw associates speak as if they have the worst lives ever. There are worse things in the world. I like using the example of the one poster who said she was envious of the cleaning lady at her office because it is a good indication of how some of your clients’ lack perspective – and you don’t seem to call them out on it. When an entitled, smart, high income person is envious of a janitor who is barely scraping by and who does not and will never have the same opportunities that the biglaw associate has, its time to smack the lawyer and tell him or her that his or her complaints are overboard, selfish, and obnoxious.

        
        
40. on April 27, 2011 at 10:05 pm | Reply biglaw: really that bad? | Like A Fish Out Of Water

    […] think that lately, he’s been painting biglaw in overly broad strokes. The first hint was this post about how working in biglaw is not so great. Look at the analogy he uses: One client told me being a lawyer was like being a plumber. Someone […]

    
    
41. on December 17, 2015 at 6:58 pm | Reply Biglaw: Really That Bad? | Lexington Avenue

    […] think that lately, he’s been painting biglaw in overly broad strokes. The first hint was this post about how working in biglaw is not so great. Look at the analogy he uses: One client told me being a lawyer was like being a plumber. Someone […]

    
    

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